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Trump knows what heโs doing when he calls his enemies โverminโ in his speeches and online. Heโs dehumanizing them. This has happened to my community twice in my lifetime: once during World War II, and again during the pandemic. It is so dangerous, and Trump knows it. Heโs preparing his base to do things that you canโt do to other humans, only to subhumans. Be warned. Be vigilant.
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@georgetakei To be fair it is no worse than what the left has done to him. They have called him that and worse.
That said I dont particularly mind dehumanizing someone who doesnt act human (compassion towards their fellow man)... So dehumanize away, at worst ill judge you on who you target (as im sure Trump is targeting anyone who doesnt support him it is that aspect that speaks against him for me).
@freemo @georgetakei tolerance and inclusivity isn't just a set of morals, it's also a social contract - Trump and his like aren't entitled to the benefit of compassion and tolerance as he is operating outside that social contract.
@darreninthenet I disagree on the compassion. He is worthy of compassion because without it we are no better than him. He just isnt to be seen as humanized ( a member of society). But compassion should always be universal... Tolarance I agree with you, we dont have to tolerate him.
Freemo is either ignorant or a closet asshole. A number of posts on his page appear to support right wing viewpoints although as subtly as possible.
@RodneyPetersonTalent Oh I have no intention of making it subtle..
I lean left but am decidedly close to center and am more than happy to adopt some right-wing points among my overall left-wing stance.
Points to you though for trying to weapoinize someone having opinions that dont 100% line up wuith yours as if people are trying to hide it, I dont hide it.
You mean the part where I think all abortions should be free and tax paid? Or we just going to leave that part out?
A giveaway to what? That I have views that arent entierly in line with the left or the right? Yea no shit, im pretty vocal about being a left-leaning centrist... Good work there sherlock.
10 week limit, thatโs the giveaway. Plus you donโt even live in the U.S.
So now not living in the USA means I dont have a right to have opinions on abortion law in wherever I live? Man you are all over the place ya nut job.
And yes the 10 week part, along side the free abortions and pregnancy tests for all, should be a dead giveaway I dont align with the right or left on this issue but instead have an opinion that adopts concerns of both sides... Ya know, exactly what I say I am, a left-leaning centrist....
You keep on truckin though, lol
@freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent First thing to acknowledge on abortion is it's not a trivial issue and neither side is obviously wrong.
Pregnancy and abortion is practically the divide by zero error of Western ethics.
Western ethics holds that if you have one person dependent on another, and the responsible person cannot provide, you transfer the responsibility to someone else. You cannot do that with pregnancy.
OTOH the West believes each person owns their own body.
So neither extreme works.
@mike805 @RodneyPetersonTalent
Agreed its a ethical dehlema where any solution will have some immoral imposition on someone. The only truely moral solution would be incubators.
My focus is to find a solution that minimizes the infringement on both parties.
@freemo @mike805 @RodneyPetersonTalent Forced parenthood is not moral either. A rape victim would be forced to have a child by their rapist.
No they wouldnt, I am not proposing making abortion illegal illegal in this thread.
If you mean in the case where abortion is illegal (unrelated to this thread by thats ok) then yea, you choose to prioritize the rights of the unborn child over the emotional trauma to the mother.. IT is one reason why any extreme on either side isnt a good one.
@deegeese @freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent Yes, it is not moral. Not good for the species either. Rape must have some reproductive value or men wouldn't do it (since it's risky) so forced parenthood from rape will make more rapists.
There is no answer on the abortion issue that will satisfy all moral constraints, so like with war, people are going to have to accept some sort of compromise as to what is permitted.
Also, Taliban attitudes toward women lose elections, as the Rs keep learning.
Rape probably wasnt risky during caveman days.. or i should say, far far less risky. IF your stronger than the woman, without a society whats the risk? Only risk is the woman might kill you, which is a valid risk, but presumably minimal if the man is stronger (or with a group).
Perhaps thats the issue, we evolved that trait back when the risk was low and now that the risk is high our evolution hasnt fully caught up.
@freemo @deegeese @RodneyPetersonTalent Cultures where raiding, conquest, and capturing women were normal things for centuries (like the Middle East) seem pretty rapey.
Civilized places where rape got you hanged, less so.
Where rape was "safe" was during warfare. Within one's own tribe it has always had consequences. The Middle East has had a lot of warfare.
Im not sure that tracks.. Seems like the correlation has more to do with womens rights and when they became defined (if at all) rather than specifically when rape was outlawed.
@freemo @deegeese @RodneyPetersonTalent Both the Soviets and the Japanese gave their soldiers explicit permission to rape during WW2. Other nations punished soldiers for it. There is definitely a cultural divide on whether rape during warfare is ok or not.
@mike805 That probably has less to do with culture and more to do with leadership.
@mike805 @freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent depends when a โpersonโ starts to exist. Ironically in the Bible it is at birth
Thats a complete non point for me and I think it only came up as a question at all to make a vain argument for abortion. While I do support abortion I dont think "when a human exists" is a meaningful or even useful question. The only question to ask is "When does this creature have thought, feelings, and can suffer or have desires" As long as the baby is capable of thought on any level IMO it is wrong.
@freemo @mike805 @RodneyPetersonTalent the other side of the coin is we know for sure the mother is sentient and her health mental and physical looms large in this equation
@DaveFernig @freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent If we take the spiritual evidence (people with pre-birth memories, for example) seriously, the evidence is the soul may be hanging around even before conception, but doesn't permanently "check in" until at least the halfway point.
There are quite a few kids who start talking about "the first time I was in your belly I didn't get born" and the mother had a miscarriage.
Oh you mean thys Bible? The one thatโs full of thousands of lies, inconsistencies, scientific impossibilities, exceedingly cruel acts of a โloving Godโ, and tons of other bullshit documented here verse by verse:
Skepticsannotatedbible.com
โAnd if you do any of those ten things he has a special place full of fire and torture where he will send you forever and ever.
But he loves you.โ
Thank you George Carlin
Fuck you God
@RodneyPetersonTalent @DaveFernig @mike805
I highly doubt he was suggesting their perspective is a good one.
@freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent Amazing how choosing your own opinions gets you attacked from both sides, isn't it?
Defining yourself as "right wing" or "left wing" is defining yourself as non-thinking. Both of those positions are self-contradictory and would run off a cliff if given the chance.
Both have some valid points, and a lot of accumulated ideology they have not thought through.
Well said... the people who look for even the slightest subtle hint of a thought on the right as an excuse to attack someone or discredit them proves to e they **are** the problem right now, and not the solution. Toxicity at people who are partly on your side does nothing but to weaken the case for your side to anyone who is on the fence.
This person has certainly done more to increase Trump's vote count than I could ever hope to do.
@freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent Thought policing does seem to be a mostly Left wing phenom. I have read Right side forums and they are much less aggressive about it. They can barely keep blatant trolls out.
Although the Israel/Palestine thing is a humanitarian disaster, the divide within the Left is quite a spectacle. The inability of the Left to admit "their side" did a horrible evil is amazing. Even Greta T is now in trouble over it. Proving she's not really about climate, just wants attention.
I think it may be that the right just doesnt put a priority on keeping trolls out. I guess they feel the free speech is too important a principle. As with most things Im a mix of both, im fine with keeping blatant trolls out but generally feel that we should give more leadway to open discussion than censorship without ignoring either.
What is "their side" when it comes to the left? Israel? From what I've seen the conflict has been divided on the left (some strongly in each camp) so the left doesnt have a clear side... The right however seems to be 100% against Muslims (as their religious hatred always seems to take priority) and with either support or indifference regarding Israel. Largely the right just seems happy they are killing muslims meanwhile the left cant make up its mind about iif jews are a whites or not so they cant decide if they are ok to hate or not.... yea its a shit show.
@freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent The Western Left (with the exception of explicitly Jewish groups) seems pretty anti-Israel right now. And that is driving the Jews out of groups they felt at home in, which may break up the Leftist coalition.
The Left see Israel as colonial occupiers much like the old South Africans. The Holocaust sympathy has pretty much worn off.
Liberal Jewish "tikkun olam" with its "everyone is nice like us" mindset has done as much harm to Israel as to America.
Smell the shit youโre shoveling, asshole.
It doesnโt take a whole lot of empathy to understand exactly why a country constructed like a prison where the fucking Israelis bombed their airport with over a 50% unemployment rate would birth a massive movement of discontent and violent rebellion.
@RodneyPetersonTalent Jeesus christ how much is Trump paying you to make the left look like asses, please stop. The man didnt even take sides, he just pointed out your complete inability to have an honest conversation about the issues from both sides... your response is to double down on your absolutism and even attack him... holy hell.
Oh fuck off. Like I have space to make every argument, and the idea I support Palestine or Hamas is ridiculous. So many ignorant fucks.
You suppress people as in whatโs happened in Gaza to 1.3 million people, theyโre going to revolt.
And the U.S. has a history of genocide, supporting genocide, and having to be dragged kicking and screaming doing anything useful to support their own citizens.
The idea that a piece of shit like Trump could rise to power proves what a shithole this is.
Then maybe you shouldnt be trying so hard to get Trump reelected (intentionally or not)....
Only stupid people and shadow supporters of Trump, like your worthless ass, think that just because Iโm extremely vocal against Trump and anyone of his ilk in power or their supporters that Iโm wrong. Whether or not they like the fiery attacks.
Consequently, theyโre bright enough not to fall for bullshit no matter how nicely or discreetly itโs packaged. Thatโs my target audience.
> Iโm extremely vocal against Trump and anyone of his ilk in power or their supporters that Iโm wrong. Whether or not they like the fiery attacks.
THat has **nothing** to do with why you are a trump supporter.. You are a trump supporter because you attack anti-trump allys and call them trump supporters, driving them to be more likely to support Trump.
I am someone who has spoken about both Biden and Trump being a family friend (both have had dinner and stayed the night at my parents home). Despite this I hav ebeen very vocally against Trump yet you still create a toxic environment against me and attack me on a personal level as I am sure you do with many people. This has done wonders to push people to vote for trump I am sure. You are trumps biggest supporter!
Come to russia, i show you what real genocidal nigger shithole look like
@lonelyowl @RodneyPetersonTalent
I'll be in russia within the month if you really want to show me the shit no one wants to see.
Most of the people i hung out with as a kid are either dead or in jail. Although i think the same thing is happening in some parts of the US
@lonelyowl @RodneyPetersonTalent
Yes I can say the same sadly
@RodneyPetersonTalent @freemo Oh I've read the history plenty. It's ugly.
(1) when the Zionists were weak and stateless, some of them resorted to terrorism too (King David Hotel anyone?)
(2) when the Palestinians were given citizenship in Jordan, some of them kept provoking the Israelis, triggering reprisals inside Jordan. When Jordan tried to make them stop, they tried to kill the king! The Jordanian army then drove them out, and that's how they ended up in a prison-like state.
Hardly limited to being weak and stateless. The ISraelis have continued to commit war crimes and terrorism repeatidly. They have even been accused as such by multiple agencies and called to court to be held accountable to those war crimes (such as using small children as shields and intentionally punishing civilians in war).. They just refuse to go to court and be tried..
Both sides are terrorists, right now, actively.
@jbschirtzinger @RodneyPetersonTalent @freemo Well the Old Testament deity certainly gave some terrorist type commands. People were engaged in channeling/spirit communication (what they called prophecy) and that has a long history of bringing bad things into this world. Either from the depths of the human mind or from somewhere much worse, depending on your worldview.
@jbschirtzinger @RodneyPetersonTalent @freemo I'm saying "not all spirits are from God" and channeled communication is hazardous. Have read up on it a lot. It's malevolent today, and I am not convinced that there was some time in the past when it was not malevolent.
@jbschirtzinger @RodneyPetersonTalent @freemo There are abundant warnings in both the Old and New Testaments that not everyone who claims to be speaking for God actually is.
When "God says" where did those words come from? Presumably a human prophet. The Bible is pretty good at telling you when an actual supernatural event is claimed.
Treating it as a collection of experiences... humans have been lead around by the nose by prophets, mediums, and spirits. Usually for the worse.
@jbschirtzinger @RodneyPetersonTalent @freemo Well given some of the things that are attributed to God in the O.T. you have to conclude that either (a) yes, God uses terrorism or (b) the people of that era did not bat 1000 in deciding who was and was not speaking for God or (c) the whole prophet phenomenon is not what it looks like.
Given that humans are known to be fallible, and people get misled by cults all the time today, I lean toward B.
@jbschirtzinger @RodneyPetersonTalent @freemo We're probably not going to reach common ground here. My tendency is to start from the present, including the weird and inexplicable stuff (I have read a lot about present day channeling, and I don't like it) and pattern match versus ancient reports to see what fits. That leads to some disturbing conclusions. I like the book "Hungry Ghosts" which investigates this stuff.
If you're taking the OT literally you will end up in a very different place.
The OT is literal in the sense that the Israelis came in and beat the shit out of some Giants and their offspring. This is not big secret, and the archaeological record bears it out. If what you are saying is you don't believe the Bible is a good resource, I can see why you have trouble with "channeling" since your discernment obviously has issues.
@freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent The situation seems to be that most people would just like to live their lives. You have a handful of assholes on both sides that keep stirring things up, getting people killed, and creating hatreds on each side against the other. It's not obvious how you make that stop. Yes there are some radical Zionists that are also a problem. The settlers were removed from Gaza, but in the West Bank the troubles continue.
Pretty sure he was refering to the lefts support for Palestine. You did seem to prove his point wonderfully though if that is what it was.
@freemo @RodneyPetersonTalent Yes I was saying the Left supports Palestine as an "oppressed proletariat" and hates Israel as a "colonial oppressor."
They are therefore quick to condemn Israel bombing residential neighborhoods. But somehow they cannot bring themselves to say the Hamas massacre in Israel was a horrible atrocity.
Some of those Leftists who cheered on Hamas, would do the same to Americans and Europeans if they got the chance.
As someone who sides with palestine overall, I agree entierly with this... and that person is now literally proving your point out as we speak... its extraordinary to see.
@freemo
Your stance on abortion is a fucking giveaway you piece of shit.