@mike805 Thats more or less how I see it. The number of **staunch** democrats I have heard refusing to be willing to vote for Biden is amazing and unexpected (to an extent). Most of them dont seem to like the idea of voting for Trump either. But it very well may make an otherwise close election a win for Trump yea.

@freemo The Oct 7 attack is looking like a strategic victory for Hamas in one sense.

Israel's response has destroyed the Holocaust-survivor shield that has made Israel untouchable all these years.

If Israel loses international support, it is a small country surrounded by more angry young men than it has bullets.

Hamas "attacked the enemy's strategy" as Sun Tzu advises. Israel did exactly what Hamas wanted them to do in response.

@mike805 I agree with that. While I certainly cant justify the actions that took place on that day from an objective standpoint it appears to be having the effect that was wanted.

@freemo @mike805 indeed. As it is unsurprising South Africa are leading the world in calling for justice. Israel is an apartheid state and with lack of rights and suppression it was inevitable that tinderbox would alight. Remember Mandela was once considered a terrorist. What Hamas did was deplorable but the response is beyond acceptable.

@Lassielmr @freemo Mandela was a terrorist. He was caught with a bunch of bomb making material and plans to use it. Hamas are also terrorists.

And both the old South Africa and present day Israel use police state terror tactics to keep their minority populations under control.

This is inevitable when you have incompatible populations forced into conflict. The more powerful one will use police state measures. The oppressed side will use terrorism. The hatreds will sustain each other.