@volkris I can see you point.
As a quick thought (which I will think more on also) I think anarchy is really something people will quickly to move into, it was degrade and degrade with people looking to hang onto whoever can promise anything and not look to themselves (as that is how it is now and they are simply not ready for DIY or even the word anarchy) so that leads me to think as it degrades just smaller dictators and fascism who have the money are obviously going to last longest until really death itself probably, and then maybe short time of anarchy or anything else.
State and it's roots (#banks) are what finance and stem all else it seems so that why people stick to it and even prepared to blame this group, that group until perhaps state just exterminates all groups not in line with it. And that just leave fascists (or financial fascists let's say as the same kind of definition of: hierarchical authoritarian governance).

@freeschool You're still thinking in terms of structures that are not sustainable in terms of equilibriums.

A slightly different way of putting that is, you might be thinking in terms of conspiracy theories that are kind of out there.

You mention the state and its roots, but really that's just what people are putting up with, and they're not putting their shoulders behind supporting such a mechanism, supporting such an effort to organize society, because it doesn't work and they see it.

It takes effort on the part of society to organize such a thing, and there just isn't the motivation to incentivize all of these people to put their lives aside and get behind that effort. This is the real world with people who want to see their kids, go to bars, look at art, go bowling, whatever else people want to do. They aren't going to put their effort into propping up that kind of system.

So it doesn't work.

All the talk about finance misses that concrete reality.

@volkris My experience is that people are actually all-in and it's actually kind of a structure in their mind. That 'other' people are needed to suffer to prop things.

They might know or complain and mention but money or numbers seem perfect / true for them regardless how money is born (debt) and accepting it devalues all work and transactions (especially those that pay for money itself).

That reflects how far out people are in the head, while I accept more physical fall-back.

Why I asked myself might they even make the same system given the chance to reset?
Because they don't want to ask anyone in person for anything or do it all themselves. Barely saying hi to neighbours. So from distance is 'humanity' and ok to follow all else.

Hmm I think I supported what you said at the end so I might conclude its "both" but what you say only at the very very end and too late to do much else than panic like a supreme rug pull or when food that magically gets here simple stops and too late to grow much for so many.

People simply don't see things happening without money, they can't accept free, it's too deep now. Perhaps "they themselves" are fascist and financial which reduce the scope from bigger organisation to mentality of people expecting perfection or finding bare humanity too repulsive (like seeing people walking bare foot or something).

The proof for me is already how they pay today and have done to support the mentality if not surviving structures outside the mentality (which is perhaps the same things).

In. my own lifetime behind 'free' school and free work they would even want to charge me for existing electric cables and not even calculate see how much I'm already saving them as 'free' per hour to just find ways to charge me... (yeah that was crazy logic and not sure it would disappear when structures do as a kind of #slavery).

For all activities people already accept soft things like that (immigrants losing out) and not just banks, bail outs, but wars needing to e funded and happen (with a shrug)

As long as it happens everyone else, doesn't matter what happens...

just sheep.

I know the finance isn't reality but it has *become* reality!

Banks made it that way when all is "born" and dies from that quite soon after (near 100% statement right?)

And while if electricity or something cuts out, I don't see things lasting so long to be tried as it need time to grow from food to relationships.

Perhaps I'm thinking today as kind of #Feudalism and service to #war #profit (because someone always has to suffer for other things to be propped up)
and then #MadMax films once the petrol runs dry! 🛢️ 🚗 💥

So can I can both but mostly the above and anything else for only a short time after since cooperation is going to be very hard to achieve let alone food.+

My account and number of replies also shows what people do more than anything constructive / looking to each other

➡️ see Media page as example and feel the disgust to doing more loving things- yuk!
https://qoto.org/web/@freeschool/media

@volkris Re-reading this particular post I missed out the "not" in my writing, even though you did get what I mean but anyway it should have said:

" I think anarchy is _not_ really something people will quickly to move into, "

⬇️ KIDS... ⬇️

You mentioned kids and I think already this reflects people who quickly kick kids out or even before that expect them to go work for whoever / whatever in order to say they are "working" / being enslaved...

⬇️ Propping System ⬇️
People are already propping.
And the main point of any potential confusion or disconnect is as what point or when / what we mean by fail as it seem some parts will already be there even if unmanned or not as fast, not all things might 'fail' so that can confuse things as it might even be free water for a while in case of emergeny in order to get the capitalism profit machine going again after.

So even failure can be suddenly repaired / ignored / temporarily relieved as long as it keep hope people can resume things afterwards.

It's all a bit theoretical so maybe you could specify a specific situation in more detail?

⬇️ SUSTAINABLE ⬇️

Things do not have to be sustainable - goal posts are moved all the time and people do near-nothing which suggests people will do similar until really really have to and even then not going to take it on themselves or even worse they will do the bad work as anarchy or structureless version.

It's all a bit theoretical so maybe you could specify a specific situation in more detail?