@mssunshine I actually agree with Musk here.. Democratic president and republican congress is a far better combination then democrats on both sides. Neither party is trust worthy or ethical and both parties are extremist in nature. By having two different parties on either side it helps us meet in the middle rather than subscribe to either extremist end of the spectrum.


@freemo Our rights are being plucked away one by one, especially women's rights. We need Roe to be codified but we can't with resistance from the right. Furthermore, these MAGA election denier candidates aren't even willing to play fairly. They'll accept the results only if they win.

@mssunshine I cant argue with you about the many flaws of the republicans.. they are a horrific, extremist, and destructive bunch... the problem is for every legitimate criticism of the right there is an equally bad criticism about the left that is just as extremist.

If we are really against extremism then we should be voting third party and be donen with the two parties. However if we insist on voting for one of the two parties then at the very least keep them balanced so the extremism of both sides balance out somewhat.

@freemo More parties would be interesting but it eventually comes down to two. Then, you pick the winner. As for extremes, how do you rid of them? These MAGA folks are infiltrating our government, law enforcement, etc. It seems that Dems care more about the We (inclusion). Repubs are more about Me - we'll embrace you...only if you think, act and live like us.

@mssunshine It never "comes down to two" .. there are several on the bailot, we vote for who we think is best. Its not a race, voting happens all at once.

How we rid ourselves of extremism in the populationn isnt an easy answer.. its a social answer. We raise our kids, and pick what behaviors we think are acceptable based onn if they are extremist vs if they are trying to find a healthy middle road. But most importantly you shun it when you see it inn your own groups and parties and not just when its the other side.

When maga folks do something extreme, call them out, whenn you see democrats do the same, call them out. Dont let it slide just because its extremism that supports your side... when we do that then we will start seeing healthy dynamics again. But it will take time and the solution has to go far beyond the voting booth and into our every day lives.

@freemo I like your tempered view. Listening, compromise, working things out are good ideals. But, when a partisan judge wakes up one morning and says, "I'm going to overturn Roe" because it goes against my (bias) principles." He thumbed his nose at a 50 year precedent and lied about agreeing that it's settled law. SCOTUS isn't the trusted institution it has been. That too needs to be addressed.

@mssunshine The truth is, they didnt overturn roe because it goes against their biased principles. They had legitimate legal reasons to do so.. im not saying its a good thing, we NEED to protect abortions. But the truth is Roe v Wade was **never** the proper way to protect abortions because its legal foundations were highly questionable and weak and was overthrown onn legitimate legal grounds.

That said what we need, what we always needed, was actual explicit federal legal protection of abortion. A supreme court case is not the proper place for that. Id go so far as saying we need an amendment to protect it.

we can be upset that abortions arent federally protected anymore, and we **should** be upset at that. But we have to recognize what we are really upset with, Roa v Wade was a cheat to get that protection, what is upsetting is that we cant agree enough as a nation to manage to pass it as a amendment as it should be. We should be upset that there is division on the topic at all. But lets not attack the judges for making the decision that legally speaking is the way the system is designed to work. The supreme court does NOT and should not make laws, it was never their job in the first place.

@freemo Thank you for chatting with me. It's been interesting and pleasant. I wish more of this type of exchange would occur. 🙏

@mssunshine I have enjoyed hearing your take on it too, its a great convo. I appreciate that we can talk about such difficult topics maturely. I always found it was one of my favorite things about QOTO, the level of maturity we have when conducting these conversations.

@freemo @mssunshine if it were normal times, I would agree with you. But republicans are actively trying to disqualify thousands of ballots, upend the election, entrench their powers, and install rubber-stamp federal judges to hijack the judicial system. I think people don’t realize how extreme the Republican Party has become and just vote Republican because they don’t like the Dems. There’s no real leftist party in the U.S. with the Dems being elitist fucks


Thats the problem, the evil left will always paint the picture of "yea we are evil but you have to vote for us because look how evil the other side is!" and then the right does the same...

There is no doubt the republicans are extremist and its "very bad" on many points. I will not defend republicans... The democrats are no better, its just their tactics, lies, and extremism manifest differently. I will say this, the democrats are much better at making their extremist immoral acts less obvious. Most people dont read the bills or do their own due dilligence, they just read whatever left or right leaning rag they want and get their info from there. When you actually follow the meetings of congress and read the text of the bills and see how the back and forth goes it becomes very obvious that the left is just as bad as the right... you are supporting evil in its extreme if you support either side.


@freemo @mssunshine I mean I do read some bills—I admit I don’t read all of the bills, especially when the Dems keep drafting mammoth bills to finesse the razor-thin majority with the budge reconciliation that they can use only so many times a year, I don’t have the time to read >1,000 page bills.

That being said, Dems generally have the direction correct—at least on the surface level. So you are right in that they make their evil less obvious. I think the problem is that Dems don't seem to *actually* solve problems cuz then they lose the reason for people to vote for them. So they either make the solution lackluster so the problem still lingers and people still need them in power, or solve one but create another.

That being said, I also don't think paralyzing Congress is the way to go. Personally, I won't be affected—I can get by every day. Some vulnerable people who need help and the earth will not survive another Republican-majority term

@freemo @mssunshine and as much as I normally rail against the establishment and the Republican Party makes sound like an institutionalist when I have no respect for all three branches of the government, we can’t have the Republican Party burn down the entire house. Especially the electoral system where we collectively decide who will wield powers. So although I despise almost all Democrats as well, I cannot in good conscience vote for Republicans


I cant in good conscious vote republican either, nor can i equally in good conscious vote democrat. So either I pick two evils that balance eachother out, or i pick a third party that isnt evil... luckily third party is always an option.


@freemo @mssunshine Which third party do you recommend? I do think we need at least one more dem-majority term so that they can fix the campaign financing law that the Roberts Court broke. Then, third parties will have the wherewithal to rise to public visibility

@daeyoung @freemo Good points! This particular federal judge drives your point. In Judge Cannon's ruling regarding Trump's stolen dox fiasco,, she wrote: ..."and that consideration is inherently impacted by the position formerly held by the Plaintiff." She did not honor the oath she took.

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