robryk @robryk@qoto.org

@kornel Can you use it for password requested by applications on Android?

@bodil How does it deal with merge conflicts on that single file?

@ianbetteridge

Note that filtering on "QT" will likely also filter out quote toots themselves (they contain the string "QT" in part that's not rendered if your instance supports quote toots "natively").

@grrrr_shark

Aren't there some particular high schools that do something in that direction locally? My high school also managed to create that sort of a society where people value curiosity, though not to the extent of one of that organisation.

@grrrr_shark

And no, I don't know how it was bootstrapped (it happened in early 80s) :)

@grrrr_shark The most important thing about that organization in Poland is that it's organized as a community. The people who organize stuff/give lectures/come up with workshop topics/... are in vast majority ones who, when they were students, were participants. This causes the community to e.g. have strong norms about satisfying curiosity, and have ~no age-based assumptions. Apart from direct positive effects, it also shows people by example that they can have a community where curiosity's valued.

@grrrr_shark

> I'm biased because I am traumatised by some of what we went through, so please take my statements with that for seasoning XD

Well, but there's a reason to ignore this reason for discounting: if a country's school system makes people of type $foo unhappy, that reason will apply to opinions of all parents of people who are $foo.

Frankly the thing I find most disquieting(?) about what I see of the school system in CH is that it has the same warts that the Polish one has coupled with (apparently) less willingness to do nonstandard things. At the same time (not sure if it's upstream or downstream) there's nothing like https://fundusz.org TTBOMK, so I don't really know how the heck it works for people who have strong intrinsic interest in something in particular.

@grrrr_shark

But if it's dependent on societal world view, then it doesn't really modulate anything, because it's constant across society, no?

@grrrr_shark

I'm not sure what you mean by rigid, so a description (of the state as of a few years ago; there were IMO very ill-thought-through reforms and I'm unfamiliar with the state after; I finished high school in 2008):

Primary school is uniform everywhere in length and is pretty uniform in expectations of what is taught.

Junior high (that got removed by the reforms) was also uniform in length and pretty uniform in expectations; there was a standardized two-part test at the end of it. Some amount of variance would manifest at this stage, but it wasn't very large in my time and my experience (and thus it somewhat forced teachers to reasonably deal with some variance of interest; I'm not sure how well that worked in general, because I have a sample of size 1).

After junior high the pathways split into roughly 3: trade schools, "specialized high schools" and general high schools. (The difference between first two is that "specialized high schools" end with the end-of-general-high-school exam.) From what I know there's lots of variance in terms of expectations, depth of teaching in various areas, etc. in the first two (and it's somewhat opaque so that choosing one is not trivial). In general high schools there's a pretty rigid set of expectations around what one should know afterwards for each subject, but one gets to decide on subjects they will take the end-of-high-school exam on. So, in practice there's more freedom for teachers of subjects that will not get chosen by their students for the exam. My experience of HS was very nice and possibly very atypical, because the HS I went to is nonconformist in many ways.

On the topic of expectations around uniform behaviour and similar sillynesses, they are pretty strong to start with, and get less strong towards HS (with the confounder of junior HS being stereotypically the age when kids are most likely to confront authority). (I remember thinking that the expectation to sit and not pace while thinking was weird.)

The subjective parts are confounded by:
- me living in a large city,
- (apart from primary school) my parents helping me choose a reasonable school (and that not requiring me to move, because large city),
- my parents being, I think, very proactive about helping me do interesting things (which might have affected teachers' view of me? I don't really know enough to tell).

@grrrr_shark

I see. My (noisy because it's hard to convey intensity accurately) impression is that this whole host of problems exists in Poland, but is strongly modulated by people involved (but there are silly expectations regardless, so if you are a person that cares about expectations it will impact you somehow anyway). Is that also the case here?

@grrrr_shark

Ah, I see which kinds of roles you mean.

@grrrr_shark

> Things I thought were self-apparent and just cool quirks aren't OK here or in DE (in France they were seen as divergent and fine)

Would you mind pointing at some examples? I would like to understand undesirable parts of the society I ended up in, and I probably didn't experience them, because I didn't go to school in CH.

@grrrr_shark

Which roles? I don't really see any roles that are relevant to my interactions with strangers that are strongly (or even maybe weakly?) gender-tied. (For non-strangers, regardless of whether such role-assignments exist, it's an unnecessary shortcut -- you know enough about the person anyway.)

@grrrr_shark

Shouldn't a desire for optimisation cause people to ignore gender completely?

@grrrr_shark

Disclaimer: my biases where I probably assume people are like me more than it's true

> But then there's also this thing about being explicit - if I don't say, "HEY, you are hurting me!", she doesn't know.

There's an additional benefit to being explicit: it doesn't only cause both parties to know $foo, but also to know that they both know $foo and all higher iterations. Being in a state where you both know $foo, but don't know that the other knows $foo or sth like that becomes weirdly complicated socially (someone once gave me a very intuitively obvious example that illustrates that, but I sadly can't reproduce it).

(My bias is probably in the extent to which that kind of complicated weird miasmatic situation is undesired.)

Also, I find it funny that people often think of the ability to tell that what you're doing is hurting someone else as a universal ability that you can just have more or less of. I think there's a very strong component dependent on the target person here, and some part of what people think of as this universal ability is explained away by similarity to the target person.

@grrrr_shark BTW. I've found pharmawiki.ch useful to look up e.g. forms in which some things are/are not available.

@grrrr_shark

Huh, I remembered that only sodium and lithium ions taste salty. Now that I tried to find a reference for that, I found https://www.chemistryviews.org/details/ezine/10125671/Correct_Answer_Salty_Taste/, which claims that potassium ions also taste salty.

I should buy some edible KCl in crystal form and add it to my salt then~

@grrrr_shark Huh, I wonder then why "normal" table salt isn't fortified with KCl then (it's the way one usually supplements potassium).

(That reminds me of amusement I sometimes cause in a pharmacy by referring to things by their actual names, because I have no clue what's their trade name in CH.)