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@b0rk

Ending up with screen-inside-screen and having to figure out how to detach the inner one.

Having a program leave the terminal in some weird state when killed (either without echo, or in that weird alternate charset mode that can be fixed by _outputting_ ^O).

Not having job control at all (i.e. can't kill or suspend anything that I start in foreground) in some kinds of emergency shells (probably due to something like lists.busybox.net/pipermail/bu).

Problems with terminals that are misconfigured so that control sequences are misinterpreted (most recently I had the issue when sshing to something that didn't understand `TERM=rxvt-unicode`).

@patcharcana

Heh. This reminded me of the annoyance with the Polish signaler simulator (www.isdr.pl), where you can't really reroute a train. The only way to get it to do something other than in its schedule is IIRC to use shunting instructions to start the deviation.

@munin

Where would you put the line that distinguishes this kind of work and work of e.g. a water pump (which I assume you don't object to on similar grounds)? On "can be commanded using nontrivial expressions of natural language" maybe?

@patcharcana

TBF Factorio's signaling automation encompasses both signaling and decision making that's normally done by the signaler and/or dispatcher.

re: cursed 

@munin @demize

I wouldn't expect doing mmap to write to a file to be more convenient from Python ~ever. Do you know why people (other than malware authors) do that?

@munin

Actually, @gregeganSF in case he finds this topic interesting. tl;dr how could a world look like if "legal positions" were quantized to a grid at a scale that's macroscopic (or nearly macroscopic) to its inhabitants.

@munin

Hm~ I then don't understand what level of self-consistency you want (nit: it's not a biological detail, because anything that processes information will have such problems). Another thing to think of in such a world is the question of straight lines: are all directions permissible in contexts where something spreads along a line? What's the distance in e.g. electrostatic attraction, or what are the directions a light ray can travel in (I vaguely remember that restricted wave propagation directions is something we do encounter in our world in some crystal structures btw.)?

If you haven't already seen anything by Greg Egan, you might enjoy his novels and stories. Many of them posit worlds with different physics (and two even with, after a fashion, different mathematics) or different ~biology (with the source of the difference unspecified) and try to extrapolate into them. Depending on what is the difference in a given story, the extrapolation is either very detailed (e.g. Clockwork Rocket), very vague (e.g. Teranesia), or somewhere inbetween (e.g. Morphotropic).

@munin

> instead you'd have a discontinuous "this length of fence can enclose this much area" table without any clear ability to infer intermediate values.

But we do live in such a world too! A fence in our world has some number of molecules in its circumference, their connections can just stretch somewhat (and usually there's a mixture of connections of very different lengths, and the fence is nonnegligibly wide, etc.). The only reason we don't think in those terms is that our fences are much larger than that ~quantum.

If you posit that the quantum is macroscopic in the proposed world from the POV of some intelligent entities, then I doubt whether they would have enough volume to store enough information in their minds, unless you posit some very-high-information-content indivisible (i.e. of the size of one fundamental cube) thing.

@munin Why not? You can still go to the limit of large sizes. Similarly in our universe we are nearly always considering setups where the Planck length (or even diameter of a molecule) is infinitesimally small.

@munin By coming up with largest surface area you can encircle with a fence of some length?

I'm not sure how rotating things would work in that world though (if you can rotate things, length of a fence is a thing you can talk about, because you can unwrap it and measure).

@m0xee @kravietz

Ah, got it -- it's about ~state-owned enterprises as opposed to all Russian ones.

@m0xee @kravietz

Huh? I see e.g. yandex using totally normal DV TLS certs from GlobalSign.

Do you mean EV certs, or something other than TLS certs?

@cstross @Andii

Is there something that makes (b) apply more to GANs than to ~any supervised non-active-learning non-RL model?

@lauren

Do you have some more reference points (i.e. printers that you had a significantly lower success rate with)?

@mcc

The general principle I've heard many times is that one should not care about noise alone. (That said, noise can help in diagnosis of other problems -- many issues have specific angles of flexion at which noise/crepitus might occur.)

Also, there is at least one completely benign reason for joint noise (I'm not sure how common it is in knees): cavitation creating and collapsing bubbles. This is why you can crack your knuckles.

@not2b @lauren

The "everything else" will not include other libraries that Chrome loads though.

@munin

Without any lathed parts, or also without parts that were made with lathed tools etc.?

@munin How much do you want to cover by the notion of the same tool? For example, golang compilers usually get built with earlier major versions thereof (and eventually with a C compiler) -- would they count?

@mattblaze @ai6yr @douglasvb

and starts to arrange for such accidents, because they tend to happen too rarely for their liking.

@b0rk

For that reason also running `foo` and `cat | foo` will exhibit different effective stdin buffering behaviour -- in the former case `foo` will see your input line-by-line while in the latter likely will see it only once you send EOF (the buffer is iirc 16KiB).

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