@freemo
The problem is that insufficient studies have been done on the interactions between adjuvants.

Have any studies on the interactions between the aduvants in one vaccine with the antigens in another vaccine given in the same shot or at the same time EVER been done? If great effort is expended to insure the right adjuvant gets delivered with the right antigen, it follows that the same amount of effort needs to be expended studying the unintended "cross-contamination" between adjuvant-adjuvant and adjuvant-antigen combos.

You know what the largest segment of new vaccine doubters is? Physicians. They're the ones who actually see the fallout from this great human guinea pig laboratory.

All of the above is from the W.H.O. in their talks on the fact that vaccines need new marketing. THEY are the ones lamenting the complete lack of studies.

@sda @freemo sure, more studies could always be useful - but the effects of vaccines and their ingredients has been studied multiple times. It's easy for people, even smart people like physicians, to be tricked by confirmation bias, but actual studies have found negligible harm compared to the huge benefits.

@mewmew @freemo
So, you know drain cleaner A is safe. You know drain cleaner B is safe. Mix them together.

> but actual studies have found negligible harm compared to the huge benefits.

Institute of Medicine
... studies designed to examine the long-term effects of
cumulative number of vaccines or other aspects of the immunization schedule have not been conducted.

... existing research has not been designed to test the entire immunization schedule

No studies have compared the difference in health outcomes... between entirely unimmunized populations of children and fully immunized children.

@sda @mewmew @freemo

> No studies have compared the difference in health outcomes... between entirely unimmunized populations of children and fully immunized children.

Well, we could compare child mortality rate with current children vs before the various vaccines were invented. I think we can imagine the results already.

@nerdman @mewmew @freemo @sda

Holy shit, I wrote my response before I saw yours and we both said almost the exact same thing, lol

@dave @mewmew @freemo @sda

We're consistently citing what we know about science or the dogma we adhere to :).
Follow

@nerdman @mewmew @dave @freemo

Problem is... science is ALWAYS changing. The science of yesterday has an inconvenient way of becoming ridiculously obsolete.

@sda @mewmew @dave @freemo

Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Einstein showed that Newton's laws of motion weren't universal.

Yet F=m*a is still king for pretty much everything humans do.

@sda @nerdman @mewmew @freemo

Ok, but the records of children dying (or being disabled for life) from diseases like Polio, Measles, etc., don't change.

We know that vaccines work. The angle you seem to be pursuing is that there may be some negative side effects that we aren't yet aware of.

@dave @sda @mewmew @freemo

To be fair I am retarded and I did get all of my shots. Perhaps the negative effect is that we're kind of not evolving our immune systems anymore but rather we're complementing them with science.

Which is all fine and dandy until the apocalypse comes and there are no more vaccines.
@nerdman @dave @freemo @sda vaccines only work if you have an immune system, the whole point is that they give you the exposure so you don't die from learning to fight the disease
@mewmew @dave @freemo @sda

Yes, but... It's like getting cars. they stop you from walking. Which is excercise. Which is good for your heart.
@nerdman @dave @freemo @sda that's not how the immune system works though. It's like getting a car and running on a treadmill - it's better for your health since you're not risking getting run over on your way to work.
@mewmew @dave @freemo @sda

Yes, but if your immune system hasn't worked out, when a new virus named Corona-chan comes around will it then have what it needs to fight back, given there's no vaccine? I just don't know.
@nerdman @dave @freemo @sda Yes, because the immune system isn't a muscle. The immune system is weakened after fighting off a disease because many immune cells die. If it doesn't have to fight off diseases as much, it remains stronger.
@mewmew @dave @freemo @sda

I'm just saying. We're stopping some elements of nature working on us. Which is good, but sometimes not. Like burning wood or oil for heating? Global warming.

You can't poke the water here and not cause ripples over there. Me personally, yay science.
@nerdman @dave @freemo @sda nature is rough and unforgiving. People don't argue we shouldn't cook food because we'd be stopping elements of nature from working on us. Our biggest advantage is our big brains and we should use them to deal with things that we have more problems with, such as disease.
@mewmew @dave @freemo @sda

I know I know. I'm just saying there's always SOME negative side to EVERYTHING, even if you have to look with an electron microscope to find it.
@nerdman @dave @freemo @sda that's fair, but we don't need to exaggerate the negative to make it look like both sides are nearly equal.
@mewmew @dave @freemo @sda

I'm not trying to. I'm just trying to find some common ground and then say, "it's not so bad bruh. Don't worry about it so much."

Kind of like I try to do with Terry and nCov.

@nerdman @mewmew @dave @freemo

I got all my shots as well. Unfortunately... or maybe fortunately, there was no measles vax before I had the mildly unpleasant bout with them. Same with mumps and chicken pox.

@sda @mewmew @dave @freemo

If I recall correctly, if you get no immunization and mumps you go sterile. Which is good if you don't want children.

@nerdman @mewmew @dave @freemo

They used to say you'd go sterile if the mumps "dropped." Apparently that was extremely rare, but severe, so talked about.

@sda @mewmew @dave @freemo

With vaccines, this appears to no longer be a problem.

Like the only problem I see with vaccines is what I'm talking to @mewmew , that we're not quite evolving naturally anymore, which is good because today we can create vaccines and cures instead if seeing how many survive the next black plague equivalent, you feel me?

@sda @nerdman @mewmew @freemo

I'm not sure how the mechanism works, but my understanding is Chicken Pox is a weird disease where you actually want to get it as a kid, because as an adult it's much more serious.

Measles, though...measles has killed around 200 million people. That you only remember it as "mildly unpleasant" doesn't really matter. It is potentially fatal.

@dave @sda @nerdman @freemo Yeah, selection bias is probably a big factor there. If he died from measles he wouldn't be making this argument.

@mewmew @dave @nerdman @freemo

Almost everyone I knew had measles. Nobody I know died from them.

@sda @mewmew @nerdman @freemo Dude, this is yet another anecdote. If you think that 200 million number is fake news, feel free to do some fact-checking.

Also, the measles vaccine was invented in the 60s. How old are you that no one you know would have been vaccinated from it?

@dave @mewmew @nerdman @freemo

In 1980, 2.6 million died from it.

Where DID that 200 million number come from?

@sda @mewmew @nerdman @freemo

"Measles came to us from cows, a slight modification of the bovine rinderpest virus. Although now regarded as a relatively benign disease, measles devastated the Native Americans, who had never been exposed to it, and, along with smallpox, was a principle reason the invading Spaniards prevailed. It has been estimated that between 1840 and 1990, measles killed about 200 million people worldwide."

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/arti

And if 2.6 million died in 1980 alone, try to guess how many have died over the last 200 years.

@dave @mewmew @nerdman @freemo

About what I figured. An irrelevant number designed to cause an emotional response.

@sda @mewmew @nerdman @freemo

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶i̶s̶t̶i̶c̶ an irrelevant number designed to cause an emotional response"

- Joseph Stalin

@dave @mewmew @nerdman @freemo

Ah, Godwin. Figured it'd show up eventually. Guess that means whatever vestige of discussion there was is now over.
<shrug>

@sda @mewmew @nerdman @freemo

Bro, Godwin's law is about Hitler. Also, you just claimed 200 million deaths was irrelevant in the context of a discussion about the efficacy about vaccines. It was entirely appropriate.

@dave @sda @mewmew @freemo

Stalin had a lot of epic (for an evil character) quotes. Even if a lot of them are misatributed. That one's a fave. Also love:

- Power comes out the end of a long gun
- One man, one problem. No man, no problem.
@sda @dave @mewmew @freemo

It is usually reached by quoting Hitler but I am seeing more reducto ad Stalinum endings of late.

@dave @nerdman @mewmew @freemo

Crossing the street is potentially fatal. Everyone I knew had the measles. Nobody I knew died from them.
Small sample, but still. Measles were not as fatal as people want to paint them.

@sda

And yet far far less dangerous than the vaccine. Measles can and does often do long term damage you may not even be aware of.

@dave @nerdman @mewmew

@sda @dave @mewmew @freemo

Oh shit this reminds me the South Park episode where the parents make the kids catch the measles from each other, one of them gets sick and needs a transplant or something, and in revenge the kids give their parents herpes by getting a prostitute to rub theiir underwear against her crotch.

Oh, South Park. How do I love thee.
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