@11112011 don't have a problem with renewables, i have a problem with euro wonks blindly ideologueing the continent into an energy crisis

putin is just the catalyst, this sucker has been brewing for a while

@skells so u dont have a problem wit added generation independence

@11112011 ofc not

@skells
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@11112011 yeah I know linked it last night

@skells so u know stop throwing ideolgy at me

@11112011

It's really not. Add enough renewables and you can have spot prices drop to zero, or even go negative. You're basically forcing the conventional providers to act as grid stabilizers for the renewables, meanwhile they don't get to sell electricity when the grid is producing.

@dave @skells prices down gud

@11112011 @dave

Legacy providers need to make money to stay in business dude. I know we *eventually* need to shut them all off, but (safe) nuclear is expensive right now, and miracle batteries are still 5-10 years away, just like they were 20 years ago. You can't shut them off until you have a real viable replacement.

@dave @skells nukes take 15 years to build

@11112011 @dave yeah, which is why it's fucked

Which is insane, because you know it didn't take 15 years when the shit was new. I hope SMRs take off and this becomes like a 1 year max process.

@dave @11112011 i think you need depleted uranium for the SMRs

FYI, depleted uranium is just uranium with most of the U-235 spent. That would be much easier to acquire/create than the enriched uranium that most reactors use.

But the only current certified design (from NuScale) uses normal enriched uranium anyways.

@dave i stand corrected

@dave @skells no one needs to make money
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@dave @11112011 @skells

Can confirm, we get negative spot prices sometimes. In Australia they have negative spot prices during the daily solar panel peak.

In New Zealand we use geothermal, rather than nuclear for the base load electricity.

Our geothermal plants produce about 20% of our electricity.

You could build geothermal plants in most countries that have hot springs or volcanoes.

@DazzaNZ @dave @11112011 that's wild

@DazzaNZ @dave @11112011 what happens when you run out of magma

@skells @dave @11112011

The magnetic field of the planet will collapse and the atmosphere and water will be stripped off the surface the planet.

It will never run out in practical terms. If you look at the planet, it's 99% volcano, and 1% crust.

If reinfect the hot water after you turn turbines with the steam, then the system re-heats the water.

@skells @DazzaNZ @dave no no no renewables bad

@11112011 @dave @DazzaNZ geothermal is easily the most based of all power generation

@skells @11112011 @dave

Yeah, they are going to keep building it, out to 35% of generation. The hydro that's already been built will last for ages.

About 3/4 of the geothermal has been built in the last 25 years. They built the new ones when they understood what they were doing properly.

The first trial plant was built in the 1950s.

@DazzaNZ @11112011 @dave how deep do these things have to go, or is New Zealand just shallow for geothermal vents?

@skells @11112011 @dave

I think they are more than a kilometre deep.

Also it is not just used for electricity. Factories and greenhouses use it.

In Taupo, you can see giant insulated stainless steel pipes across the farm land taking the steam to factories.

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-and-energy/energy-and-natural-resources/energy-generation-and-markets/geothermal-energy-generation/

@skells @DazzaNZ @dave when u live of exporting gas and oil like russia and u dont realy have that much use internely to it, all renweabes inur customers contries are bad

@11112011 @dave @DazzaNZ ok bro thanks for playing

@skells @dave @DazzaNZ

@11112011 @dave @DazzaNZ tfw blitz is actually ursula

Worse, he's Portuguese

@dave @skells @11112011 @DazzaNZ

🤓

@dave @skells @DazzaNZ

@skells @dave @DazzaNZ u dont need to be ursula to know for example the greens anti nuclear get theyre money from putin for example, but u can also be ursula

@skells @DazzaNZ @dave of course i dont want to make u feel bad about ur putin gud stand

@11112011 @dave @DazzaNZ hard to make me feel bad for a stance I don't hold

@skells @dave @DazzaNZ my mistake then thought u were 1 of the europe fucked dudes spning fairy tales

@11112011 @dave @DazzaNZ your persona has mush for brains

@skells @dave @DazzaNZ yea i know thats why im mostly wrong

@11112011 @dave @DazzaNZ it's not about wrong or right

@skells @DazzaNZ @11112011 @dave "The industrial activity that expands relentlessly with developments in the natural sciences is basically a campaign to promote energy consumption. Its target has not been so much to boost energy production as to senselessly waste energy. As long as man continues to take the stance that he is 'developing' nature, the materials and resources of the earth will go on drying up." -Masanobu Fukuoka, The Natural Way of Farming, Natural Farming for a New Age

@skells @DazzaNZ @11112011 @dave Fukuoka, cont'd: "Burdened by growing self-contradictions, industrial activity will grind to a halt or undergo unyielding transformations that shall usher in drastic changes in political, economic, and social institutions.
Self-contradiction is most evident in the decline in energy efficiency. In his fascination with ever greater sources of energy, man has moved from the heat of the fireplace to electrical generation..."

@skells @DazzaNZ @11112011 @dave "But he closes his eyes to the fact that the efficiency of these sources (ratio of total energy input to total energy output) has worsened exponentially in the same order. Because he refuses to acknowledge this, internal contradiction continues to accumulate and will soon reach explosive levels."

Nicole Foss on renewables http://bit.ly/2rzS5Pq

@js290 @skells @DazzaNZ @dave do u own a car?

@dave @11112011 @skells

This is a good point.

The base load, geothermal, keeps everything going overnight, where stuff that stays on all night is the base load.

Then in the morning, they let water out of the top dams, which generates breakfast rush power.

The water runs down the river where a dam generates the lunchtime rush. Then later the dinner peak.

The dams store and don't generate if wind and solar are generating.

Gas generate for peaks responsive to sudden demand in Auckland.

@DazzaNZ @dave @11112011 @skells
"In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics..."
https://youtu.be/Dc-m9dumEaw

"$0.63 of grease from $27 of bacon..."
https://youtu.be/FYlZd__XFro

Mark Shepard on Restoration Agriculture - "Annual agriculture is all about living through our concepts... our idea we've imposed on reality & when reality doesn't behave according to our idea, what do we do? We input... we can never input enough to make our false concept correct." http://bit.ly/1GnbtAA

@js290 @DazzaNZ @dave @skells do u own a car