@p
This has always been my biggest worry. Mastodon is especially notorious for not just keeping control away from the end user, but also gaslighting said user.

Instead of a message saying "Communication with this server isn't possible because of a block on this server.", it just pretends people don't exist.
@r @alex @torresjrjr

~b · Dec 29, 2020, 10:23

~b boosted

**pistolero** @p@freespeechextremist.com · Dec 29, 2020, 10:23

Dec 29, 2020, 10:23

pistolero @p@freespeechextremist.com

@r000t @r @alex @torresjrjr Yeah, the users and the other admins. I remember the witches.live admin doing that lengthy freakout, "PLEROMA ALLOWS FASCISTS TO CONDUCT PASSIVE SURVEILLANCE" because she thought that if she blocked FSE, FSE would somehow know this and stop fetching posts. Gargulon actually argued against disclosing server blocks and kept them out for a long time (allegedly because this would "enable harassment") but it just means that nobody knows if they've been blocked, especially not the server in question.

~b · Dec 29, 2020, 09:57

~b boosted

**pistolero** @p@freespeechextremist.com · Dec 29, 2020, 09:57

Dec 29, 2020, 09:57

pistolero @p@freespeechextremist.com

@torresjrjr @r @alex

> Ideally everyone would have their own instance, and federate as they wish.

This is the goal of cofespace.com, I want to push the ratio of users to admins as close to 1 as possible.

> Obviously there's a huge barrier and cost to that

Handshake problem, sure, but it's doable. The protocol might have to change to scale that up. (It's got to change to scale up anyway.) The problem is, as Alex noted, the P2P solutions aren't ready yet. (I've used twister.net.co, very cool but somewhat heavyweight; it's almost as involved as running Pleroma yourself. It's pretty quiet there, too: this is where the party is right now.)

I've got a project I'm hacking on intermittently that fixes the handshake problem but it'll be a minute, it's not top of the list.

> The cost per freedom goes up for massive instances

I'm not sure what this means.

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 14:49

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 14:49

Dec 29, 2020, 14:49

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

@p @r @alex
Great to hear of those efforts. This is definitely a community effort and I'm eager to contribute.

> > The cost of freedom goes up for massive instances.
> I'm not sure what that means.

I meant that if you sacrifice some freedom and entrust your account to a bigger instance, the cost is greater because admins are more distant, their administrative desicions are more detached and less accountable, etc.

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 10:12

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 10:12

Dec 29, 2020, 10:12

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

@mnmlsm
The UNIX Command Language (1976)
Ken Thompson

https://susam.github.io/tucl/
https://susam.github.io/tucl/the-unix-command-language.pdf
https://susam.github.io/tucl/the-unix-command-language.html

The first-ever paper published on the Unix shell.

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 09:39

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 09:39

Dec 29, 2020, 09:39

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

@anonymoose @r @alex
Good points.

After some reflection, I think this is only true in absence of certain realities, though:

- Email is mostly a P2P experience. ActivityPub posts are globally public by default.
- ActivityPub is generally more informal, faster and variadic than email.

Both points influence the dynamic of a social network. "spam" is a greater issue in a Fediverse-like system, and I sensibly guess that we've arrived at this point with blocklists being prevalent for other reasons too.

But good points. At least I can maintain alt accounts with little effort. The resilient Fediverse proves itself and floats.

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 08:21

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 08:21

Dec 29, 2020, 08:21

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

@p @r @alex

> > This is *true* freedom.
> ... for the admins

> blocking on people's behalf is the antithesis of freedom.

In *that* context, I agree. Ideally everyone would have their own instance, and federate as they wish. True freedom.

Obviously there's a huge barrier and cost to that, so entrusting someone else at a relatively small cost is the next feasible option.

The cost per freedom goes up for massive instances, which is why its important to de-clusterize.

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 07:43

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 29, 2020, 07:43

Dec 29, 2020, 07:43

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

@r @alex
This mentality is so subtly but importantly wrong.

No one has an obligation to federate with anyone. This is *true* freedom. That's how real life works too.

The Fediverse is fractured, which is inevitable and natural, because the Fediverse most closely resembles real life, which is also fractured into communities.

btw, the "open" means "non proprietary".

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 28, 2020, 20:17

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org · Dec 28, 2020, 20:17

Dec 28, 2020, 20:17

~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

Git builtins for email.
Bookmark it! Preserve the bazaar!

https://www.git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Appendix-C:-Git-Commands-Email

> Many Git projects, including Git itself, are entirely maintained over mailing lists. Git has a number of tools built into it that help make this process easier, from generating patches you can easily email to applying those patches from an email box.