~b @torresjrjr@qoto.org

@lucifargundam
lol thanks for the nightmares.

wth does this mean?

#dalle #dallemini the fediverse

@derickr
Yep. Hare is a system's programming language, so it wouldn't be appropriate to ship our own compiled tzdb package like most languages. We have to parse the tzif files like C.

And yes, the POSIX DST ruleset strings are very annoying! We will likely have to move or copy some code from datetime:: to time::chrono::.

@derickr

Also of interest:
https://harelang.org/blog/2022-04-17-chronology-in-hare/
@hare

@derickr
Wow, what a better fedi-encounter than that of the author of a "Guide to Date and Time Programming" book. Nice to meet you!

I will certainly be reading up on PHP's datetime facilities, and thankful for your outreach. I'm guilty of leaving PHP out of my reading list. A quick glance tells me there's quite a similarity to Hare's design.

If you are interested, (the Hare project and) I would love some feedback regarding Hare's (nacent, in-progress and unpolished) datetime library. Perhaps you have some wisdom, some design theory we can learn from.

=> @hare
=> https://harelang.org/community/
=> https://docs.harelang.org/datetime
=> https://git.sr.ht/~torresjrjr/hare/tree/chrono/item/datetime/

Thanks again. Will use that email.

@yyp @tobtobxx
TIL. Links for lurkers:

https://jdebp.uk/FGA/introduction-to-redo.html
https://cr.yp.to/redo.html
http://www.goredo.cypherpunks.ru/
https://github.com/apenwarr/redo
https://github.com/leahneukirchen/redo-c
https://git.sr.ht/~ach/redo-hare

Does anyone know of any good literature on datetime arithmetic? Or perhaps a really good software library (standard or third-party)? Especially anything that tackles non-communitivity, overflows or nonexistant dates/times (due to timezone effects).

I'm looking to rehaul the #hare stdlib datetime module soon, and we want it to be very robust and of high quality. Will also be helpful in some Hare projects, like a scheduler.

=> https://docs.harelang.org/datetime
=> https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/scheduled

The closest thing to a useful standard I've found is this:

=> https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#adding-durations-to-dateTimes

In the mean time, I'm trying to create a formalisation of datetime arithmetic so we can have something theoretically sound to implement. Something which takes advantage of Hare's language features. If you're interested, let me know. The more gray matter, the better. Boosts welcome.

@G117CH

You certainly make some good points there. I agree. I suppose I always talk with the implication of libre software in mind.

What business, if I may ask?

@tobtobxx
Thanks for sharing them anyway.

@G117CH
I'd argue philosophically that npm as a concept is flawed, and the lack of this insight is what causes all these issues in the first place.

Also, I don't buy a lot of this "forced upon by the world ecosystem complexity". I see a large lack of due diligence out there. But yes, the outside world exists, and we have to deal with it :D.

> I wonder how adoption will work out.

World domination is not a priority for the Hare project. Upstream Hare deliberately does not support non-libre OSs. It's a principled language, and if others happen to find value in it, that's great. It's not meant to replace anything. Languages serve different purposes and niches, including Rust.

@tobtobxx
This is 2 years old, btw
https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/arewesimpleyet.org/log

@G117CH
> intoxicatingly easy
Precisely where the poison lies. Copying the npm/.node_modules monster is a terrible idea. Your point about C/C++ external libraries is also true. Which is why I like Hare's sensible and user-friendly inbetween.

=> https://harelang.org/tutorials/libraries/

@G117CH
I myself kinda hate Rust haha. Or more so the Rust ecosystem. But I do respect it's primary points of memory safety, etc.

@G117CH
Of the author's opinions:
- https://drewdevault.com/2019/03/25/Rust-is-not-a-good-C-replacement.html

Also of interest:
- https://drewdevault.com/2017/01/30/Lessons-to-learn-from-C.html
- https://drewdevault.com/2017/03/15/How-I-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-C.html

- https://harelang.org/blog/2021-02-09-hare-advances-on-c/
- https://harelang.org/blog/2022-05-02-what-is-hares-scope/
- https://harelang.org/blog/2022-04-25-announcing-hare/

@G117CH
> complex and bug-prone memory management
> doesn't support Unicode

The author of the manifesto holds these same opinions, and in fact made his own programming language in the spirit of C which addresses these issues. It might interest you.

https://harelang.org/
@hare

I've contributed to Hare myself and enjoy the language.

@G117CH
What's your point?

@captainepoch @DjBRINE1
Everyone should have an alt, or multiple. It really solves a lot of problems!

For so many people (including me once), it never even occurs to them. It's really a mindset change that needs to happen. People are used to mindlessly filling out their (Facebook/Twitter/etc) profiles, and they become attached to this singular electronic entity, this single digital representation of them. It's a whole personality onto its own.

Multiple accounts should be commonplace. They allow you to produce different feeds with different personalities and registers of tone and content for different people, just like you would in the real world. It also exposes you to different subcultures around the network, just like how you'd explore the real world. You are complex person. I think the natural accident of federation results in this naturally better #fediculture.

There are many more good reasons, like network resiliency, proliferation of ActivityPub implementations, etc.

Simple software manifesto
"Are we simple yet?"
https://arewesimpleyet.org/

#manjaro #linux (#gnome edition) is very nice and works well. Installed it a few days ago on an old machine.