That’s me (or who I aspire to be) right there!
“I didn’t expect you to be interested. I’ll just be standing over here in the corner in case you decide you like truth and goodness.”
@ImperfectIdea @tripu and as always dystopia is pitched as truth and goodness
I understand that you (implicitly) saying that [our claim that festivities should/could be redesigned is bad] is something that you consider “good” and closer to the “truth” (otherwise you wouldn’t be defending it), and thus by your own assessment it risks devolving into a dystopia?
/cc @ImperfectIdea
@tripu @ImperfectIdea i think that sort of rational materialism leads to dystopia
It’s a risk, yes.
Anyway, we’re talking shifting a few dates around to better accommodate modern sensibilities and preferences here, not burning down the regime.
Again (and I’m not trying to be facetious here): it is rationality (and I would argue also materialism) what you are using to conclude that any reform proposal risks devolving into a dystopia.
The polar opposite (keeping holidays just as they are) is essentially conservative and status quo bias.
Where’s the middle ground?
/cc @ImperfectIdea
😆
Well, I was talking in general there (cold utility calculations, cost/benefit analyses, redesigning traditions, etc).
But wrt fesitivies you forgot the most important point there: picking the best individuals/groups to honour! 😃
@tripu yeah, let's vote every 4 years to decide who we honour on each holiday... I'm sure that won't end up badly at all 😂
Who talked about voting?
Lots of (preferable) ways! Elections every four years are the rarest of ways in which governments at all levels make important, long-term decisions; I’m surprised that was your first thought.
@tripu I was only half-joking. But I suspect any way of deciding would be controversial and would generate polarising protests each time the current taboo trends change, which seems to be weekly nowadays. I think learning to accept (some) (harmless) traditions might be easier than forcing "improvement" without understanding what will happen.0
I’d start by examining the convenience or the need for official #holidays and #festivities at the national level. I’m not saying I’m sure they’re pointless — I’m just saying it’s not obvious they’re good or necessary as they exist now.
Why stop a whole nation in specific dates? Why not leave that entirely at the discretion of other levels of government (eg regional, local, schools, companies, labour unions, even families and individuals)? There are advantages to not having everyone take time off, buy compulsively, halt important services, congest the roads, etc all at the same time.
The State/government staying out of the business of festivities and letting those groups design their own set of n yearly holidays instead would annul many Culture Wars (“shut up and pick your own, or negotiate your preferences with your employer/town/union”). It would better accommodate personal preferences and needs (caregivers, large families, childless couples, young, old, healthy, sick — they may prefer different weekdays or seasons, different religious dates, different historical figures to honour).
OTOH, shared festivities allow for better, bigger events (economies of scale), probably contribute to integrating immigrants and in general to build a sense of belonging and unity (aside: is that working? is that even good?), and allow institutions and businesses to plan ahead for safety etc.
Many arguments and counterarguments there, for sure.
Assuming we do want official national holidays, the calendar should be decided much in the same way other important, long-term decisions are made already: by technocrats, via international consensus, through Constitutional reforms, or via a referendum held once in every generation or so. That is how most decisions are made, actually — nothing new here.
Technocrats and politicians routinely decide what expensive medical interventions to subsidise and what conditions are too rare, unpopular or expensive to treat within the public health system. International treaties about commerce, war, energy, immigration, etc are written, signed and held for decades without the populace ever voting. Someone in your country decided exactly how many aircraft carriers to buy (or not buy) last year without consulting you. Experts advise governments (and politicians decide) about whether to phase out that nuclear plant, build a new dam, buy foreign debt, sell an island to a foreign nation, etc. All that is easily politicised and subject to controversy.
I’m not saying I’m OK with all those important decisions being made without my input. I’m just saying redesigning national holidays with a cost-benefit mindset shouldn’t be essentially different from all that.
@tripu I knew you would like that character 😆 scientifically engineering public holidays based on the optimal number of yearly breaks for an average number of hours/week and an average amount of stress/hour. Sounds like a dystopia!