volkris @volkris@qoto.org
I think the most pressing and fundamental problem of the day is that people lack a practically effective means of sorting out questions of fact in the larger world. We can hardly begin to discuss ways of addressing reality if we can't agree what reality even is, after all.
The institutions that have served this role in the past have dropped the ball, so the next best solution is talking to each other, particularly to those who disagree, to sort out conflicting claims.
Unfortunately, far too many actively oppose this, leaving all opposing claims untested. It's very regressive.
So that's my hobby, striving to understanding the arguments of all sides at least because it's interesting to see how mythologies are formed but also because maybe through that process we can all have our beliefs tested.
But if nothing else, social media platforms like this are chances to vent frustrations that on so many issues both sides are obviously wrong ;)
Joined Dec 2022
I mean, there was also something different happening in 2021 that is no longer going on...
Trump
Well I guess that gets into the specific laws being brought up.
Some laws do involve intention, and some laws don't..
But in short I'm not convinced there was an intent to do something wrong here. I generally believe Trump thought he had won, because he's an idiot, and it's kind of hard to prove that he wasn't acting on that intention without some smoking gun message where he said otherwise. And so far nobody has produced one, that I've seen.
Yep, so I would definitely get government out of selling both alcohol and lottery tickets.
I do agree about keeping government out of it, but same way I agree with keeping government out of selling liquor.
It's a vice and it's bad for people, but at the end of the day it's up to people to choose for themselves how to spend their lives and I would not tell people they can't gamble anymore than I would tell them they can't drink alcohol.
I'm opposed to government being involved with it positively, but I also wouldn't use government to impose my values on other people by taking it away from them.
Like I said, prohibition showed some pretty serious negative effects from trying to impose values back in the day.
I don't think it's just a press release, though, since it seems like it is the technical legal claim that the guy is making. It's not purely partisan, it is what the law specifies, right? They didn't just use those words to get the headline?
To be clear I don't know anything about this, and I honestly don't particularly care what they are doing down there, but it seems to me that this is not simply repeating propaganda, it sounds to me like this is the charge against the official so I don't know how to report this without reporting the charge being made.
What is factually wrong with the headline?
us politics
What you're getting wrong here is the against the will of the people part.
In the end that is the question that is being begged.
Well it's a vice, so banning it is about the same as alcohol prohibition.
And we saw how well that worked.
You're making that assertion, where is your reasoning to support it?
If I put something on a public website seems to me that an AI firm has every right to it because I am providing it to the public.
So what is the argument that they have no right to something being provided publicly?
Yes! Opposition to murder is indeed imposition of values on others, values that we can probably agree on!
And so that's the thing, I am happy to own my choice of saying that I will impose my opinion against murder on others. Why not own the imposition of values on other people's children? If that's the position you are taking, great! Own it!
It has nothing to do with libertarianism, again I disagree with a lot of libertarian stuff so I don't really see this as a libertarian issue, it's just a matter of civics, this is how we organize governments.
When you impose your personal values on other people, fine, just own it.
They literally cannot act autonomously. Their entire legal process is based on having orders from the president. Without presidential orders the DOJ has zero legal authority.
That is a core feature of the US government, a basic matter of civics.
Any law enforcement that acts without the authority of the president is going rogue and acting illegally.
Trump
I really don't know what connection you are trying to make there, I don't know what the similarity is.
Except that by law they were not fraudulent electors, but were instead the ballot being presented to the Congress for Congress to judge.
So your argument really goes in the other direction.
It is because the outcome of the objection process is not the beginning end of the legal issue that the charge against Trump doesn't make sense and can't be judged based on that.
Well to be clear this mainly comes down to the democratic process where the people that we elected chose to use student loans to fund Obamacare, so we can't really discharge these debts without defunding significant parts of the federal budget.
Yes it's stupid. And yes we chose to reelect the people who made these stupid decisions.
Wrong branch of government.
The executive branch is the branch that polices things.
The judicial branch only offers opinions, rulings on cases and controversies that are brought before it, it does not police things.
That is just not how the US government is set up, and these fundamental matters of civics are all too missing from our education system, apparently.
We have three brushes of government, and it is not up to the judicial branch to police. Wrong branch of government.
And I don't think you are being intellectually honest if you are trying to duck the matter of imposing your values on others 🙂
So now that we have gotten what we think of each other out of the way, let's stick to the facts.
If you want to use the force of government to impose things on other parents with regard to kids or whatever else, you are trying to use force to impose your values, and maybe that's for the best, but at least admit it!
It is literally what's happening, and if you are being intellectually honest then you need to admit that.
What are you talking about? I am absolutely anti Trump and I look forward to him being locked for the idiotic nonsense that he has gotten up to.
This has nothing to do with how Trump works. It has to do with holding the police accountable.
We cannot abide by this really factually incorrect theory that federal law enforcement doesn't answer to the president. No, by law the president is responsible for what the executive branch does. Biden doesn't get to just take the out and pretend like federal law enforcement is doing its own thing, and he's not responsible for them.
That is giving federal law enforcement way too much freedom to abuse their power, to be used their positions.
We need to be very clear about this. No, federal law enforcement doesn't get to just do it at once without being held accountable under the president.
I know I'm repeating myself over and over again, but it just seems like you aren't getting the message, yes you are imposing your values on other people's kids, and if you are great with that then great, I have no disagreement with you!
I just really don't know what you are arguing against here.
Great, you think your values are the right ones to be imposed on other people's kids and that's fine! I have no argument against that. But it is what you are doing.
So long as you recognize that you are imposing your personal values, then great!
Trying to justify your personal values doesn't enter into the issue. Yes those are your values. Yes I know that you really believe them to be the right ones. Yes you are trying to impose one other people. I have notice agreement with you on any of that.
Go for it.
But just, admit that that is what you were doing.
I think it's pretty clear.
Well first of all I don't identify as libertarian. I have some pretty big disagreements with most of the people who seem to take on that title, but setting that aside.
No it's just a simple matter that if you want to impose your personal beliefs on other people's children, great! Just say that's what you're doing, that is factually what you are doing, and let's get on with it.
I don't think it makes sense to impose your personal values on other people while denying that's what you're doing.
It's just, well that is the factual thing being proposed, so let's get on with it.
I think the most pressing and fundamental problem of the day is that people lack a practically effective means of sorting out questions of fact in the larger world. We can hardly begin to discuss ways of addressing reality if we can't agree what reality even is, after all.
The institutions that have served this role in the past have dropped the ball, so the next best solution is talking to each other, particularly to those who disagree, to sort out conflicting claims.
Unfortunately, far too many actively oppose this, leaving all opposing claims untested. It's very regressive.
So that's my hobby, striving to understanding the arguments of all sides at least because it's interesting to see how mythologies are formed but also because maybe through that process we can all have our beliefs tested.
But if nothing else, social media platforms like this are chances to vent frustrations that on so many issues both sides are obviously wrong ;)
Joined Dec 2022
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