The richest 1% took home nearly twice as much wealth as the rest of the world put together over the past two years.

If that doesn’t convince you wealth inequality is out of control, I don’t know what will.

@rbreich You have your priorities mixed up... people making more than everyone else, no matter the extent is **not** the issue. It only detracts from the real issue, which is the quality of living of the poorest people below the poverty line.

Wealth is not a pie, a fixed thing with only so much to go around. One person having more does **not** mean someone else has to have less. Wealth is something constantly being created and destroyed, the real question is why arent the poor able to create wealth.

@freemo @rbreich I'll push back on this one, if only because I don't want to look at my dynamic programming assignment 😂

I agree wealth inequality itself isn't the problem; however, I don't think the market is good at assigning value judgements to things, which leads to a whole bunch of really screwed up stuff, and the subsequent conflation of benefiting from capitalism with worshiping mammon.

For example: the CCP has been torturing religious and ethnic minorities for decades, mass surveilling their people, murdering political dissidents, and *MOST IMPORTANTLY TO INVESTORS* preventing individuals or corporations from withdrawing assets from the country "illegally". Yet, our investors, companies, etc. speculate that China is "the next big thing" and lose their asses while enriching a hostile country. People continue investing in Nestle and Tesla despite the provable child labor in their supply chains, (and of course the rest of the atrocities Nestle got away with). Why? Because making an extra 2% ROI is all that matters.

Meanwhile, private equity firms in the US buy up failing companies for pennies on the dollar, try to squeeze *every* *last* *drop* of capital out of them, and cause lasting damage in the process (see the environmental damage caused by rail issues across the US, alongside the mess of our hospitals, many of which are owned by private equity). Their M.O. is to run things so lean, and to cut so many corners, that the business fails anyway, but at least they didn't let any of that money go to the worke- I mean-down the drain.

The impacts of our modern values in relation to money go on and on, because nearly everyone has a price but not a spine: they'll sell out their employees and the business they built up to get rich, and leave the people they employ in the hands of a board who never sees them, and frankly doesn't care about them at all. For most, it's not about loyalty, purpose, effecting change in the world, and eking out a living (even a good one!) in the process; it's solely about the number of 0s on the check. It's so bad to the point that peoples lives and finances are ruined for "shareholder value", while disregarding the people who actually generated value for the company and the economy.

Finally, the reasons that the poor "cannot create wealth" is that often it is taken from them while the wealthy are given kickbacks in an almost perverse way: banks charge more fees for lower account balances, accessing credit with lower APY is more difficult, etc. Of course much of this boils down to financial literacy, but when a single car accident can bankrupt a family due to exorbitant healthcare coverage, adversarial insurance companies can screw anyone who can't sue them (by not paying out), etc, it's easy to see that there are not enough legal protections for the impoverished when the penalties for victimizing them are a pittance or even nonexistent.

So while I can agree that money *itself* isn't the problem, the modern "idolatry" of it is such a perverting influence that people conflate the two, because frankly it's difficult not to.

@johnabs

I dont think we are in disagreement. There is an issue, and part of that is how we treat money, sure.. the point is wealth inequality simply isnt an issue and hurts no one itself. All the other issues you mention, sure.

@rbreich

@freemo @johnabs

>"Finally, the reasons that the poor "cannot create wealth" is that often it is taken from them while the wealthy are given kickbacks in an almost perverse way... "

The most deleterious way in which money flows from the poor to the wealthy is through the unfair tax system with all of its exemptions and deductions. To determine a "fair" tax rate, i.e. one in which everyone pays the same rate on all economic activity, you need to divide tax revenue (about $4T / year) by all economic activity, i.e. every dollar that changes hands (estimated about $1600T / year). That works out to a tax rate of .25%. That's right, if we fairly taxed every dime of economic activity -- every time a dollar changes hands -- instead of carving out loopholes for the rich, everyone would pay a tax rate of .25%. But under the current corrupt system the poor and working class pay 30-50%, while the wealth often pay nothing.

>"There is an issue, and part of that is how we treat money, sure.. the point is wealth inequality simply isnt an issue and hurts no one itself."

Wealth inequality is an issue and it does hurt people when it is so great that some people can't afford the basics, like shelter, food, transportation, healthcare. And it's a huge issue when it is the result of government intervention on behalf of the wealthy -- distorting markets while leaving more people in desperation.

Turning over more control to the government as a response to this situation will only make it worse because government policies (which are ultimately determined by the wealthy) are what have gotten us into this mess in the first place.

I think some form of robust Basic Income, like a Universal Basic Income for those who need it, along with a fair tax system that politicians can't touch, is a sustainable way to alleviate the suffering.

@rbreich

@Pat

I actually disagree there, the tax system is rather fair and pretty heavily taxes the rich. Most of the perceived issues here come about from meme that just arent accurate and a lack of accounting knowledge... but I digress, we can agree to disagree here.

What I do want to say is that the real problem is more about how lax we are about anti-trust laws (monopoly busting laws), thats where the real issues lie, the tax itself is fine.

@johnabs @rbreich

@freemo

>"...the tax system is rather fair ..."

Compared to slavery, yeah.

>"...we can agree to disagree here."

I disagree.

>...the real problem is more about how lax we are about anti-trust laws..."

Yes, that's another big issue and one that I think is due in large part to laws that encourage monopolies and hinder companies that attempt to challenge incumbent market leaders. (those laws are often written by those incumbent firms themselves)

@johnabs @rbreich