@freemo I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I thought he was absolutely necessary as one of the few democrats who call out their own leadership. Unfortunately he stopped doing that, so meh good riddance. But not so good riddance to the party (i'm not a democrat, republican, independent, or anything). Now Trump will win, and establishment Democrats will blame their loss on Bernie supporters (again) instead of themselves, like I said would happen over a year ago. The truth is, the democrat elites would rather have Trump than Bernie, no matter what they say publicaly. Again, I'm not a Sanders, Biden, nor Trump supporter @design_RG

@obi

Ehh, I dont see him as "that guy who calls out their own leadership"... he did that for the same reason he does most things, it was self-serving for him during a campaign.

Counterevidence was him supporting the DNC and specifically endorsing Hillary in the last election for example, and likely to endorse biden in this election.

If he had ran as an independent or at least called out the DNC for being amoral consistently I might actually support him.

@design_RG

@freemo @design_RG I totally agree. When he is not campaigning he calls them out, raises his following, then submits, with only sparks of real leadership. After he endorsed Hillary, I lost a lot of respect. Then she does a special and talks about how she would have won the electioon if he would have endorsed her sooner (he held 37 rallies for her) and he still says nothing back to her. He lost his spine ever since that day he endorsed her, probably out of fear of being pushed out. He has only had small sparks of life since then.
If his campaign was even slightly competent he would have ran away with the nomination.

Now my prediction is looking more and more real. DNC flood the campaign with nominees, all drop out and back establishment candidate, Biden will win nomination then "fall ill" before the election, DNC will put who they want in as nominee, essentially stealing democrats votes away from them. They will then LOSE and blame everyone else.

@obi

Iw as actually a Bernie supporter until he endorsed hillary, at that point.. never again.

@design_RG

@freemo I'm 40. They only person I have ever endorsed or who I would ever vote for was Tulsi. If your not a fan, please don't respond back to me with Mainstream Media talking point smears LOL. Ive heard them all, and left Twitter because I was sick of pointing them out in responses haha @design_RG

@obi
There's a good chance the Orange Man might be defeated by the pandemic impact, both in health and economic terms.

We will have to wait and see, things are happening day by day and seem to happen slowly now.

@freemo

@design_RG There is 0 chance that person who beats him will be Biden tho. DNC doesn't care to win unless it's there choice @freemo

@obi

Bidden indeed is not a good candidate, unfortunately.

And I see Trumps handling of the whole crisis in a VERY different way that Freemo, it seems. It's clearly inept. The man is incompetent and dangerous.

@freemo

@design_RG

Can you give an example of something he actually did that was "inept"?

I dunno.. he raised CDC budgets every single year, sent out navy ships to provide relief early on, cut a 1.5K relief check to every american (and possibly more to come), guaranteed to pay for coronavirus testing and forced quarantine, fairly early on barred incoming flights...

Its really hard for me to see what he could have done that he didnt do. Where exactly did he screw up?

By the way generally speaking he is incompetent and dangerous. But in this case he did listen to the right people and did everything he should have and everything the experts asked of him. so really cant see where the fault is.

@obi

@design_RG He's actually handled the pandemic exponentially more than I thought possible from him. His approval rating continues to climb. @freemo

@obi

Yup exactly... the problem is I think @design_RG gets a lot of his view of the world from left-leaning media (most of the media he shares is explicitly biased to the left). So I think he is just getting a very distorted image.

Thing is, its an intentional tactic of the left in an attempt to win through distorting the reality (the right does it too, but in this case not really needed since the left is digging their own grave). the end result is the same thing we saw last election, they are convinced up and down trump is going to loose, and he wins anyway. Partly because fewer on the left are going to vote when they think they are a "sure thing".

So if anything with the left trying to paint this false narrative of Trump screwing up his response all they are doing is making themselves look bad for those who do their own research, and ensuring they lose votes due to complacency for those who buy the party line at face value.

@freemo Totally agree, and I don't see a lot of people who share that perspective. The thing that really bothers me is that nothing will change, as it hasn't since the last election, and when they lose, like I said, they will blame people calling them racist, sexist, etc and take no responsibility, and repeat the process over and over and over and over. @design_RG

@freemo

Yes, I do follow media channels that I have affinity for, and don't think they are distorting reality -- like the other side does or tries to do in a daily basis.

I am always surprised by your evaluation of his handling of this situation.

@obi

@design_RG So like he asked, what could trump have done differently.?@freemo

@design_RG

You keep saying you are astonished by my evaluation of his handling of the situation, yet never actually provided any real facts or data to support your side, meanwhile most things I've claimed I've cited specific facts and sources on it. Thats the difference you will see when you follow a narrative that lines up with your personal biases rather than trying to find the truth regardless of how painful it may be to your cognitive biases.

Remember, I have never once voted republican in my life, I have always voted democrat or sometimes third party. So this is hardly my default bias. But I have to go where the facts send me.

That "affinity" you spoke of creates a feedback loop. You follow the media that has the propaganda that fits your own agenda and lean, and as a result it increases your own lean and justification. Which separates you farther from the nuance of the situation and causes you to have a false picture of the full landscape, good and bad.. Nothing personal, most people do it honestly.

But the end result of it is going to be you wont have a very accurate picture of where the election is heading.

@obi

@freemo
I could spend a huge amount of time in the kind of debate thread you enjoy, but I don't see the point -- as people will end up unchanged and going their own ways. I won't try to convince you, and it's not for lack of possible arguments.

The worse aspect is that having someone who acts the way Trump does is damaging other countries, not only his own.

@obi

@design_RG

You are certainly welcome to engage or not as you see fit, I wont hold that against you.

But there has been at least a dozen times you've written up messages about how much you hate trump's response or are astonished by my evaluation without providing any facts or sources to back up your view.

all those messages could have simply had a few bullet points thrown in with solid references and you would have spent no extra time on the debate but actually said something meaningful.

Also the idea that you cant change anyone's opinion seems weak. My opinion has changed consistently. A year ago Trump was public enemy number 1 in my mind, and through data and discussion that opinion has changed.

Personally I find when people take that out it has less to do with not being able to change someones mind (after all you didnt even try) and more to do with not wanting your own mind changed or to reveal your own biases, which might discredit you to others

With that said no matter how much I might disagree with you, that wouldnt discredit you in my mind, as long as you are respectful in how you express yourself, as you always have been.

@obi

@freemo @design_RG @obi >But there has been at least a dozen times you’ve written up messages about how much you hate trump’s response or are astonished by my evaluation without providing any facts or sources to back up your view. WAIT! HOL’ UP!! Lemme guess, lemme guess:

:smb64_o::smb64_r::smb64_a::smb64_n::smb64_g::smb64_e: :smb64_m::smb64_a::smb64_n: :smb64_b::smb64_a::smb64_d:

…okay, fine. So I’m not JUST reaching for low-hanging fruit here, I offer this possible explanation as well — which I know I’ve posted before but maybe a few new lurkers may find it interdasting:

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/05/26/the-perils-of-introspection/

>The Misconception: You know why you like [or hate] the things you like [hate] and feel the way you feel. >The Truth: The origin of certain emotional states is unavailable to you, and when pressed to explain them, you will just make something up.

@design_RG @freemo you won't debate, but you will just repeat what the news says without any critical thought? Seems intellectually lazy. You have no lack of arguments but don't give any? Seems lazy as well, or they are not very strong. Why even say anything unless you want to back it up, and not just live in an echo chamber?

Truthfully not saying this to be rude, I actually enjoy a lot of your posts, and have nothing against you. But on the road to being a better version of yourself each day, you should always open your mind to something that nowadays a lot of people won't - being wrong. I'm not saying you are, because u haven't presented a case, but an open mind is the best mind.

@obi

Yea that was kinda my take.. not the lazy part so much (he kinda admitted it was out of lazyness and nothing wrong with being lazy)...

But why put energy into stating something as true if you dont bother to explain why its true. At that point best not to say anything at all because its just wasted energy. Explaining a perspective has value, simply stating a perspective without the reasoning behind it has no value.

@design_RG

@design_RG

doubtful, not really a chance of that on a few counts..

first off, during crisis we very rarely see a switch in presidents, even when they handle it poorly.

Second, the democrats handling of the crisis has been several orders of magnitude worse than Trumps. In fact Trump's handling of the crisis is the first thing he has done fairly well.

It seems to me the democrats have turned the lying up to 11 to try to do exactly what you describe, make trump look bad. They even went so far as to very obviously try to derail legislation that was meant to help the american people with relief (which thankfully he managed to push through anyway)..

So while the liberals are certainly trying to sell the narrative you claim it seems to me the effect is the exact opposite and they are only destroying their own reputation and chances in the meantime.

Of course if you beleive the liberally-biased half of the media they will try to paint a very different picture.

@obi

@freemo I've been saying Trump is out Lefting the Left. Stimulus push, and essentially Medicare For All who are effected by the Corona Virus. And the Left opposes him when these are supposed to be their moves! It's all just too much orange man bad, not enough intellectual discussion, and opposition on everything. They have lost all credibility. @design_RG

@obi

Yup trump played the left like fools... He **knew** the left would oppose anything he did, even if it was something that itself was a classically left move. He used that against them. Then when the left went out of their way to derail it it just made the DNC loose credibility and loose support in the next election.

@design_RG

@freemo If this isn't the time for a 3rd major Political Party, I don't know what is. The reasons against it were always "we will lose to the Republican". Well, you already lost, and show no signs that you care or are going to change. @design_RG

@obi

I would LOVe to see a third party emerge. Though I am doubtful it will happen.

What I do see is a shift between democrats and republicans. a few years ago it was the republicans (ala fox news) who were jsut constantly streaming lies and propaganda... Now its the left with constant lies, and the right is the one pushing for very liberal ideology and reduced wars... Its almost like the two parties are trading places like they did several decades ago.

@design_RG

@freemo Truthfully, I'm just glad we had this conversation, cuz I thought that I was truthful very alone in seeing things that are just so blatantly obvious, and factual. Now I don't feel like I am crazy, and am reassured it's just the world that is. Thanks. @design_RG

@obi

Honestly neither of us are alone, if you look at the data its pretty clear we arent alone. It just so happens the liberals right now are the loudest, I think its just in their nature, part of the liberal culture of protest and change (progressive is in their name)... Meanwhile the conservatives are the ones who keep to themselves, dont really voice their opinion too loudly, but in the end still have the numbers. Especially now, the DNC have been losing a LOT of support.

I cant tell you the countless number of democrats I've heard renounce the DNC recently.. Its costing them huge numbers the way they are handling this epidemic. Like you said its really rather obvious to most people who follow congress and hear them talk.

@design_RG

@obi

Hell you dont need to take my word for it. Just look at any of the polls that dont generally have a lean or bias.. Trump's approval rating is the highest its been, and consistently keeps surpassing what Obama's was just prior to him winning the next election.

Plus Trump's opponent is much weaker than Obama's was. so if we go by the numbers I think its clear Trump will be winning this election.

@design_RG

@obi

Oh and moreover, not only is Trumps approval rating the highest it has been, the best part is that his approval among **democrats** is sky rocketing.If we compare his approval rating from early march to that of end of march his approval among republicans was 91% and increased by only 1% to 92%. However is approval among democrats was 7% and almost doubled increasing to 13%! Swing voters also increased going from 35% support to 43% support.

He really is climbing like crazy, but liberal media is always going to add their propaganda spin to that sadly.

@design_RG

@freemo No doubt. I just can't take them seriously anymore. They are the unseen clickbaiters of Television. @design_RG

@freemo I am 100% positive that we will never see a Trump/Biden debate. I've been thinking about it a lot lately, there's just no way it will happen. Trump would destroy and false notions people have of Biden's electability within seconds. A new candidate will be instated or something else worse, like they won't have debates and cause another crisis to justify it. @design_RG

@obi

Its hard to say if we will see a debate or not. I'm not sure there is any unbiased media left capable of even holding a fair debate at this point.

@design_RG

@freemo That's reassuring to hear. I think I only hear the loudest online, and don't see a lot of people in real life. I have 3 kids and watch them from 5:30am-2:30pm while my wife works, then we switch and I work until 11pm, and am usually to busy at work to shoot the breeze with my co-workers.