Interesting fact of the day:

Islamic medicine was well ahead of its time when it came to the treatment of the mentally ill. the Quran demanded the those with mental illness be taken care of and treated kindly, this was reflected in how doctors of the time cared for the mentally ill and very much a departure from the attitudes of other cultures at the time where the mentally ill were demonized or quite literally treated as possessed.

Here is the specific quote from the quran translated to english:

"Do not give your property which God assigned you to manage to the insane: but feed and clothe the insane with this property and tell splendid words to them." -- Sura 4:5

@Science

@freemo Yes, Islam actually WAS ahead of its time like 1000 years ago. Somehow they regressed after then. To me it shows that the more strict the doctrine, the more backwards it gets. 1000 years ago Christianity was the strict one. In some countries here it still is, and those countries are also kinda backwards in my eyes.

@trinsec @freemo
possibly the change in Christianity came through the Renaissance, which till yet has not happened for Islam.

@mur2501 Good point. Things definitely started to change around then. Christianity went from the 'Dark Ages' to the 'Age of Enlightenment'. Islam had that about 1000 years ago, they truly had a golden age going on. Mathematics, medicine, etc, that was at the pinnacle back then. Even the Christian world looked up to them.

I don't know what happened that it changed. Maybe governments changed and became more strict.

And we all know what happens to very strict societies... They won't be able to be creative and develop.That counts for ALL religions, not just Islam. That counts for ALL societies, regardless whether they're religious or not.

Repressive rule is never a good idea.

@freemo

@trinsec
currently, even translating the Quran is considered unholy so muslims just read it without understanding it
@freemo

@mur2501

Thats not entirely true, every muslim I know can read the quran in the native language and are taught the language at a young age. Those who can not understand it read a translation along side the original.

@trinsec

@freemo @mur2501 @trinsec Rather than "not entirely true" I would rephrase that to "entirely untrue"

@benk

Wel that part that was true is that it is considered "unholy" or rather less holy, to translate the quran.

@mur2501 @trinsec

@freemo @mur2501 @trinsec I think I do understand what you're saying, about how the original words of the Qur'an are considered "holy" but translations are not sacred in and of themselves. Perhaps "unholy" is just too strongly negative because it has some implications in English of being the opposite of holy, like evil or satanic. (Of course, I'm sure you didn't mean that!)

@benk

Agreed it may not have been the best word choice, but you get the idea.

@mur2501 @trinsec

@freemo @mur2501 @trinsec By the way I found the discussion about the Enlightenment and science to be interesting. I kind of have a different opinion that lines up a lot with what Trinsec said about Muslim countries being stuck in political dysfunction. The historical background is very long and complicated but as you probably noticed most Muslim countries today have become weak, impoverished, and unstable. This comes with intractable societal dysfunction, despotic and corrupt governments, and so on. *It's very tempting* when your country is prosperous and nice to go down that path of, "We're doing so great because we have the best culture, religion, way of thinking, etc." It's like when rich people say to themselves they are rich because they're just the best people, and poor people are poor because they're bad. I tend to avoid thinking that the success or failure of countries rests on whether or not "Islam" itself is good, or our success is because "we did religion right" / "because we're atheist" / "because we correctly understood Christianity". These rationalizations always come after the fact.

To me the Enlightenment as a concept popularized in European historiography, to what extent it was a real phenomenon, cannot be universalized and is just something unique to European society. I'm not sure people outside of Europe can really relate to the conditions or thinking that bring about this concept. (Did Europeans even relate? Or were so-called Enlightment thinkers always a privileged, minority voice in a broader society that didn't relate to them?) For one thing it relies on a belief that religion and science are opposing forces. If you mistakenly tried to project these ideas onto Muslim societies or histories you would make a few wrong assumptions like, "Muslims were less religious back when they were having their scientific golden age; now they've traded science for religion." Actually a lot of these scientific scholarly dudes 1000 years ago in the Muslim world who were advancing mathematics and medicine were also reading and writing books on theology and religious philosophy urging orthodox Islamic piety. That's just how they looked at the world back then.

But yeah I would say the single thing most Muslim countries need now more than anything is education. I wouldn't say their religion is bad or good, because whether they pray in Arabic or wear certain clothes or practice sobriety is all well and good, BUT it's the higher-level functions that need reform. (I argue this transcends mere religion.) More information and a broader worldview will help them to make the right choices. I think we're seeing this more and more now with the sudden rise of education and connectedness in the Muslim world. (Just look at Internet usage.) It's true these countries lagged behind in modernization; they suffered several major shocks in the 20th century. Things are predictably rocky, but they'll smooth out soon. A bit more stability in their lives and having their basic material needs met will help a lot of people to chill out.
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@benk

Very well said, I would also add
one of the factors that slowed Muslims nations development is that the international monetary system isn't compatible with Islamic finance doctrine, especially the usury (making money, lending money).In a verse from the Quran, people who engage in this practice are actively waging war against God.(That's how bad its perceived).

[Quran 2:276-280] God condemns usury, and blesses charities. God dislikes every disbeliever, guilty. O you who believe, you shall observe God and refrain from all kinds of usury, if you are believers. If you do not, then expect a war from God and His messenger. But if you repent, you may keep your capitals, without inflicting injustice, or incurring injustice. If the debtor is unable to pay, wait for a better time. If you give up the loan as a charity, it would be better for you, if you only knew.

There is considerable development in last decade in Islamic finance to make it compatible with international finance, so that might bring capital to those nations to invest in education, Infrastructure and manufacturing which should instate stability.

One of the factors that accelerated the western nations development, especially in the last century is the invention of fiat money and the infinite money printing.

@freemo @mur2501 @trinsec

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