Interesting fact of the day:
Islamic medicine was well ahead of its time when it came to the treatment of the mentally ill. the Quran demanded the those with mental illness be taken care of and treated kindly, this was reflected in how doctors of the time cared for the mentally ill and very much a departure from the attitudes of other cultures at the time where the mentally ill were demonized or quite literally treated as possessed.
Here is the specific quote from the quran translated to english:
"Do not give your property which God assigned you to manage to the insane: but feed and clothe the insane with this property and tell splendid words to them." -- Sura 4:5
#History #Islam #Musslim #Quran #Religion #Psychology #medicin #history #science @Science
Quant à la science dans les sociétés islamiques, il n’y a pas qu’au niveau de la santé mentale qu’il fût un temps où ces sociétés étaient largement plus avancées que les sociétés occidentales. C’est aussi vrai du reste de la médecine, et dans une moindre mesure de la science en général.
@freemo Yes, Islam actually WAS ahead of its time like 1000 years ago. Somehow they regressed after then. To me it shows that the more strict the doctrine, the more backwards it gets. 1000 years ago Christianity was the strict one. In some countries here it still is, and those countries are also kinda backwards in my eyes.
@mur2501 Good point. Things definitely started to change around then. Christianity went from the 'Dark Ages' to the 'Age of Enlightenment'. Islam had that about 1000 years ago, they truly had a golden age going on. Mathematics, medicine, etc, that was at the pinnacle back then. Even the Christian world looked up to them.
I don't know what happened that it changed. Maybe governments changed and became more strict.
And we all know what happens to very strict societies... They won't be able to be creative and develop.That counts for ALL religions, not just Islam. That counts for ALL societies, regardless whether they're religious or not.
Repressive rule is never a good idea.
@mur2501 Mm, I would say that Enlightenment for christianity got sped up considerably during the time that the printing press got invented. Then around that time, people decided to translate the bible into the local language, so people understood it more. And because of the printing press, it could be mass-produced and spread even more easily.
Originally the church didn't want it to be translated either. They let priests interpret it to the masses. But thankfully they couldn't stop progress, the printing press was there to stay. The church started to lose its iron grip, and it started to become 'bye bye Dark Ages!'
It's best to be able to teach the people to educate themselves instead of discouraging it.
I personally dont see the adherence to arabic a bad thing so long as a person is allowed to use their native language as a stepping stone, particularly if adopting the religion later in life.
My impression has been that while the Arabic language is strongly prefered and generally seen as the only way to really understand or be part of the religion at all, translations are acceptable as a stepping stone. Most muslims seem to think even a partial effort is better than no effort.
Quote from wikipedia with source:
Because Muslims revere the Qurʻan as miraculous and inimitable (iʻjaz al-Qurʻan), they argue that the Qurʻanic text should not be isolated from its true form to another language or written form, at least not without keeping the Arabic text with it. Furthermore, an Arabic word, like a Hebrew or Aramaic word, may have a range of meanings depending on the context – a feature present in all Semitic languages, when compared to English, Latin, and Romance languages – making an accurate translation even more difficult.[1]
Fatani, Afnan (2006). "Translation and the Qurʻan". In Leaman, Oliver (ed.). The Qurʻan: an encyclopaedia. Great Britain: Routledge. pp. 657–669.
@benk@pleroma.tilde.zone @freemo @mur2501 @trinsec
Very interesting conversation. I very much echo @benk@tilde.zone 's remark about how easy it is to get into "we are doing better therefore we are inherently better" and that Elightenment was the key to our current successes. To support that point, let's inspect some real historical facts in a sequence:
1. the peak period of the Islamic science achievements was [High Middle Ages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Middle_Ages). Se [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world#Significance) and [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe). That is, the peak time of scientific and cultural expansion was between 1000-1500 AD.
2. the peak of [Ottoman empire](https://www.britannica.com/place/Ottoman-Empire/The-peak-of-Ottoman-power-1481-1566) millitary expansion was betwen 1481-1566 and their dominance/power was projected till 17th and 18th centuries. To achieve that, they had to show a significant technological superiority. That points to a significant technological and scientific capacigty and exploitation thereof.
3. Gutenberg invented the [printing press](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printing_press) around 1400. This is perhaps the single most important lasting invention spanning technology, society and politics till today. Behind this invention lie all the small technological and political innovations facilitating the press (think the monopoly on written word moving from the Church to citizens)
4. Columbus "discovered" Americas 1492-1504 during the [Age of Discovery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery), arguably the pinnacle point of technological advancement of that time. Underpinning the voyages, there were numerous smaller technological, societal and political innovations necessary in the period before.
5. [Reformation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation) came about to its full force in 1517 with Martin Luther.
6. [Age of Enlightenment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) came only in late 17th and 18th centuries.
This shows that:
1. muslim Ottoman empire did not quickly lose a capability to exploit science and technological innovations after the peak cultural and scientific expansion. The decline was very gradual. As the religion was well established by then, apparently the correlation between its success (as in driving force of military expansion, etc.) and its strictness is not clear.
2. European started their to exercise and exploit their technological and scientific capabilities way before the age of Enlightenment and Enlightenment (whatever exactly it meant to the contemporaries) has little to do with the vast technological expansion which happened independently already before.
3. the big political and societal upheaval of reformation came _after_ many significant technological advances unlocking European expansion were already in place.
What I am trying to say in so many words is this: it seems to me that scientific/technological/military advances and exploitations seem to be rather weakly correlated with cultural and political "revolutions/awakenings". Based on that, I would be quite suspicious to say that Muslim countries struggle in the recent centuries in the realm of science _because_ of their religion. I'd argue, they seem to be rather independent and it is something else which caused the decline. And in reverse, I personally wouldn't look at reforming the religion in order to unlock and boost technological & scientific developments either.
But again, I am just an amateur historian and a very inconsequential policy maker, so what do I know :-).
Very well said, I would also add
one of the factors that slowed Muslims nations development is that the international monetary system isn't compatible with Islamic finance doctrine, especially the usury (making money, lending money).In a verse from the Quran, people who engage in this practice are actively waging war against God.(That's how bad its perceived).
[Quran 2:276-280] God condemns usury, and blesses charities. God dislikes every disbeliever, guilty. O you who believe, you shall observe God and refrain from all kinds of usury, if you are believers. If you do not, then expect a war from God and His messenger. But if you repent, you may keep your capitals, without inflicting injustice, or incurring injustice. If the debtor is unable to pay, wait for a better time. If you give up the loan as a charity, it would be better for you, if you only knew.
There is considerable development in last decade in Islamic finance to make it compatible with international finance, so that might bring capital to those nations to invest in education, Infrastructure and manufacturing which should instate stability.
One of the factors that accelerated the western nations development, especially in the last century is the invention of fiat money and the infinite money printing.
@freemo @Science
Peut-être qu’au moyen âge, en occident, les « fous », soit vivaient parmi le reste de la population, parce que leur maladie psychiatrique ne mettait personne en danger, soit étaient purement est simplement zigouillés, car trop dangereux/violents.
C’est plus récemment qu’on a enfermé systématiquement les « déviants », qu’on les cache à ceux qu’on considère comme « normaux », qu’on veut une société sans aspérités, sans rien qui dépasse, sans « fous » dans la rue.