@iankenway Sounds like a good plan, just make sure getting a photo id is a free process with good help and there are no issues from me, I support this

@freemo But it won't be a free process and it is very unlikely that people will receive any help whatsoever. All it is likely to do is disenfranchise the following groups: the poor, the vulnerable, young people and the very old. Not good. Ultimately just a cynical bid to skew the franchise as has been happening in the USA over past nine years. See:



@iankenway Sounds like that is **not** an argument against Ids and **is** an argument for making sure that process becomes free and provides better assistance.

It seems to me lunacy to look at the flaws in that system and go "it is wrong to require IDs" rather than "It is wrong to charge for IDs"...

Dont be part of the problem, be part of the solution, support IDs, oppose ID fees.


I think the argument for ID is far from straightforward. There are many issues here. Some of them are historical, some of them are cultural, some of them philosophical and some of them technical. It's not just about cost and access. See:


@iankenway I've read them, at least from a USA perspective. I think most of those points outside of the technical however are non points.

I dont care so much if someone in the past happened to be oppressed by ID laws, I care more about ensuring ID laws in the present dont oppress anyone.

Culture and history are no excuse for not doing things right (Effectively) in the present, although we should learn from those mistakes.

@iankenway In the end the argument that you shouldnt need to identify yourself in order to vote or do anything else for that matter is absurdity in its most extreme.

Common sense should tell people we **need** IDs for a system to have any level of sanity.

One we identify that reality it should all be about making sure IDs are fair and dont oppress certain people, but to take a stance against IDs makes absolutely no sense to me.

I respect your right to the opinion and dont want you to feel attacked, but to me its an absurd stance to take politically.

@freemo Thanks for your comments. I think we're just going to differ on this particular issue. I don't think I'm alone in my reservations by any means e.g.


For a wider discussion about personal identity may I suggest this as a starting point.

None of this stuff is straightforward. It really isn't!

@iankenway You absolutely arent alone, not even as a Britain, it is also a view of the left in america.

While I appreciate the links literally not much of this is new information. I've went pretty deep on most of the issue with the left americans.

But I just want to say not being alone on an argument isnt really a good case against its absurdity, if anything, at least in politics, should make us more suspicious of the sanity of an argument not less when there is a large group of the general public that starts agreeing on it, especially when that group is isolated to a particular part of the political spectrum (in this case left).

@iankenway One point though to your link.. the unfair part cites something very different than what im addressing (needing an ID to vote) it is talking about stop & ID laws. To be clear I do NOT support stop and ID laws. I agree with the american stance that unless you have probable cause you should not be allowed to be stopped if you do not wish to.

@freemo Thanks for that clarification - much appreciated

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