Hot take?:
"Western" movies is a terrible way to define a genre. We don't define other genre's by their setting (except for maybe scifi?). Instead of talking about "Western" movies we should talk about the genre I would call "Hero" movies. The "Hero" movie genre includes everything from The Outlaw Josey Wales, Seven Samurai, The Patriot, and possibly Star Wars. This is a better genre definition than "Westerns".
Is Back to the Future Part 3 a western but not the other parts? They have similar plots! That's the point of the movies! So do Josey Wales and The Patriot. These are the same movies in different settings.
So if "Westerns" are defined solely by their setting then the episodes of Star Trek TNG that take place in the old west are a western but Firefly isn't. This definition of a genre is absurd and useless.
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@valleyforge Western movies arent about the location. Its about location, time, and style. A western movie is set during a specific time period when America was new (1800s usually), focuses on west, and generally must be period factual and usually contain cowboys. For example back to the future 3 has most elements of a western but has strong fiction/fantasy elements and as such isnt considered a western.
@valleyforge Its not setting and dressing.. As I said it is also time period, the presents of cowboys, and a general requirement to be non-fictional. It very much defines every aspect of the genre, not just the location.
Samurai movies are their own genre. Most of the elements that tie them to the others are due to Hollywood just ripping them off. Seven Samurai became The Magnificent Seven, Yojimbo became A Fistful of Dollars, and The Hidden Fortress became A New Hope. It's surprising how rigid the formula can be, which makes it all the more obvious when things like The Last Samurai diverge from it and don't fit into the genre anymore.
@valleyforge In fact I'd go so far as to say that westerns arent just a very specific genre, I'd say they are more specific than most genres.
Take Sci-fy as a genre.. it includes pretty much anything in the future. Thats way more broad then westers which define not just that it be non-fiction, but a location, time period, and specific character types (like cowboys). Most genres tend to be equally vague except westerns.
@valleyforge @freemo
Westerns depict "the wild west" of America during a specific timeframe. This includes but is not limited to:: scene, clothing, technology, dialogue, govt infrastructure and social norms of that time.
Branching out from the depictions of the historical past means distancing the movie from the genre.
@freemo But why is setting and essentially dressing the defining factor? Would someone who likes "Westerns" not also generally like Seven Samurai even though it contains none of those things? Isn't that why we define genres?