@freemo @selea
It might not have been this but yes let's go with it because it's very much around this weaponising of math and devaluation from Banks leading to owning quite everything / using our energy while being an uncaring / financial-only source of life using negative numbers as growth (constant debt) and the ultimatum of needing to use their material from themselves.

They sell their own money which is a kind of devaluation right from the bat connected to all live in financially orientated / manipulative hierarchy of people therefore relating to #fascism and transmuting / transforming all society that also has to 'fall in line' with that... as financial fascism.

:D

Your thoughts on that,

- if you believe above is true,
- if you think people like banks and government are are neutral and not using it as their main power (lending what they don't have, maybe upto 10 times or from the compound effect of being allowed to lend)
- lending leads us mostly into more craziness / unreal arbitrary / madeup value and false growth / more damage from people pushed too hard to catch up with it and finite planet increasing sped-up and dying to feed largely banks and government pure-profit schemes!

:D

@freeschool @selea

So for starters just so we are all on the same page here, fascism means an ideology that supports a strong authoritarian government. Genrally it equates to a government with a great deal of power to execute their laws harshly and completely. It makes no assertion, however, as to if those laws are just or not, an ethical government can, at least in theory, be a fascist one (the benevolent king). In other words its where the greater good (as defined by the government) is more important than personal freedoms and liberties

By this definition I'd clearly place both democrats and republicans in the "Fascist" category with republicans leaning a bit more towards fascism, but with both being strongly fascist. By comparison Libertarians are the opposite, the least fascist.

That said simply having a central bank or a government controlled currency in and of itself isnt the issue. Its not Fascism simply to run a currency management that people can choose to use. Where it becomes fascism is when laws get enacted that force you to use that monetary system as opposed to having other options. As long as you have an option, even if everyone chooses to use it, then it isnt facism.

So that said a central bank, in and of itself, isnt fascism. However laws that require you to use that currency as a monetary system, or any law that prevents competition with the monetary system start to lead towards fascism, the more harsh those laws are the more it resembles fascism. So when it was illegal to hold gold for fear it would compete with us dollar, that would have been an example of a fascist use of a central bank.

Even the loan system isnt fascism, nor even a bad thing so long as its optional for people to engage with it. Fascism isnt simply anytime something exists within the central government or even something that gives the central government some degree of power. Fascism is only really when that power is used authoritatively to suppress personal freedoms. So long as you are free to choose, even if the system is built so many will have their choice manipulated by propaganda, then that isnt fascism. But again, fascism doesnt mean "good or bad" so something that isnt fascism may still be bad and something that is fascism may still be good. The problem with good fascism is they will often devolve into evil eventually.

@freemo @selea
Thank you. Really good.
Yes on the same page with that. ✅

❓ Any answers for what to do in regards to people born into it and existing people struggling (?)
as it does seem to all be devolving and people going along with it soft form of fascism knowingly also and never really looking to build each other up.

====================
(My answer is below but just for your time for you can skip the rest of this and just answer whatever you think about that)
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For example is working together, almost no matter who, to building communication and then maybe trust. Because even at the beginning people need the practice let a lone coming to actually do anything or working together with so much 2 hands and brains can do),

And then another suggestion is not over-spending time trashing Trump, Musk, Bezos etc or not spreading their news at all - and again re-fueling into doing our own thing. This seems the way.

But doesn't seem to catch people's interest or perhaps they are not dedicated / desperate enough to break the online things and imagine all comes from communication and now is best chance not later and we need to practice seeing / building up people themselves and not only what they do but entertain others and branch out / grow even more.

@freeschool

So keep in mind my first response wasnt about "whats the problem and how to fix it" .. it was more about "what is fascism and when is it a problem", I want to be clear even if central banks dont in and of themselves represent fascism that in no way is meant to imply they arent problematic in other ways, nor am I implying there isnt a serious issue when it comes to poverty and how we handle it as a society, there absolutely is.

As for how to solve the problem... well most problems are 90%+ social and can only be solved at home in how we raise our children. We can do some things to give people a better chance at raising their children with the resources they need, but that will only go so far as it isnt the bulk of the problem really. That said, we have to address the problem from the only angle we can as a society, even if that means we can only hope to have a small impact.

The main solutions revolve around providing good welfare, but conditional (none of this UBI crap) where anyone will get generous help to get on their feet but it will be based on the merrit of their participation and not a free ride. So things like, free paid school up to PhD level, and offering better welfare options to people in school working to better themselves. Stuff like that.

@selea

@freemo @selea
Great stuff with 2 main considerations:

1- Children - if they can really grow out of terrible spirals (even with good education / morals)

2- Banks - who might not represent or declare fascism but all but do things similar.

So more on each optionally below, Otherwise above is fine.

Mostly asking in regard to future of children (or adults based on many I have come across) and a kind of better long-term decision-making perhaps needed in regards to both Children (perhaps not 'creating' the relative debt) and Banks as poor / cold money managers...

(Back to 1)
🧒 Raising children still inside cold systems will be a bit like "do as I do as a child but not what I say as adult" (do as I do not what I say or care about)
So when they grow up into 'work' it's still perhaps only the soft-fascism option being in yet another binary/ultimatum style sub-company culture (or just hierarchy inside state with too many rules)

(Back to 2)
🏦 Banks might be fascist if they are as an authority having almost total monopoly on money or the driving force behind life is getting managed largely financed by negative energy / debt first...

The rest is more detail why they might be fascist but you can skip to summary in next section:

1- authoritarian hierarchy themselves (or large uncaring authority with not much morality in lending etc)

2- and if they team-up with similar totalitarian state (so to some degree that are from playing ball state)

3- if almost (99%?) of life is piped through Pipe_exb: banks :and who doesn't get loans for the many good humans endeavors blocked for pure-profit style reaping and keeping power. Does seem accusative is about power and control and state.

4- and the public #debt they are lumped as a result of unfairly public money and private money having blurry lines (bail-outs etc) is just too unforgivable it seems and very obvious stealing for their mismanagement of debt (allowed to lend x10 more than it has just bizarre).

============
SUMMARY
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So considering all that with (!) Children and (2) Banks - seems it's all about taking from behind people's back / using negative maths and leveraging debt to compound stress all over the place which then leads to a lot of negatives society as a result of negative equation
or
$ = $ + debt (can't really win this and it's very "extractivist" / fascist ?)

I'll try limit myself from saying more but for me and current 'children' even it seems far from neutral and almost mission impossible fascist with more hoops of fascism and a kind of sterilized design without people.

See if you have more on Children getting out of that lock Banks have.