I know a little bit about federation when it comes to projects in the fediverse - probably more than a lot of people reading these words. Federation is only 20% using common protocols and 80% sharing common "policies" and principles. Implementing common protocols is easy. It's just programming - anybody can theoretically do it. Sacrificing your principles is much harder - assuming you have any. Your choices are either to draw a line in the sand and stick with your principles, or give in to an unacceptable solution and stand accused of having the scruples of a crack whore.

I used to give in, because that choice makes it possible for two completely dissimilar projects to actually work together.

Emphasis on "used to".
@macgirvin I gave up on trying to negotiate with the Mastodon lot in particular (as much as people seem to have the perception I never cared to, I actually was involved in the initial development a fair bit, not that I get any credit for it.)  I helped Gargron suss and develop the initial protocol stuff because I had the probably-niave idea that any effort like that could only improve and expand the fediverse.  Over time it became quite obvious that it was going to be their (Mastodon's) way or the highway, and anyone who puts me in the position that I have to choose between myself and them, has already made that choice for me.

I think there's a lot to be gained from the lessons of other projects, all the same, and ignoring them is silly.  But also silly, is compromising your own project and your own community, to appease another.  One has to have integrity, and sadly the fediverse has largely lacked that.
@maiyannah I'm not ignoring the fediverse (I'm using it right now). I played the world domination game twenty years ago. It was certainly fun, though I did a lot of things I now regret. I'm an old man now. Not a lot of time left to fix my karma.
@macgirvin Admittedly I come at that from the angle of ostatus and the lot of everyone who takes a dump on GNU social, but a lot of people seem to take the "move fast and break things" approach and disparage more mature projects.  These newer projects don't seem to ask themselves if there's perhaps a reason people did things a certain way.

I have to admit I have a particular aversion to ActivityPub because while its branded as the new hotness, it fixes none of OStatus's problems and adds some new ones of it's own.  It's overspecified in places that don't matter (why do we care what format a time is in as long as we can decipher it?) and underspecified in the places that matter (what exactly is an actor object?)  It's a hot mess, and I'm tired of people asking me to implement it.  I'm not interested - it'd just be adding problems to postActiv without any benefits (unless you count "being part of the cool kid's club", but I don't.)  I guess I'm preaching to the choir here, but if we truly care about making a decentralized network, nomadic identity and distributed media are the two problems we have to figure out.  The latter is more complicated in the controls side than it is in the actual implementation, since we don't need to be hosting kiddie porn and the like.
@maiyannah Glad you're up and about again. I was a bit worried last week. Yeah I don't show it and I never call or write but I'm one of your biggest fans.

Anyway as it turns out an interesting solution to distributed media turns out to be - nomadic identity. I've got it working in the lab. And cross-domain access control for media still works.

I had an AP project (Osada) for about six months - but AP can't really deal with distributed media any more than it can deal with nomadic identity in its current form. Unless you count torrents. I don't because it's just "the cloud is someone else's computer" taken to extremes. Relaying private posts/comments is another thorny problem with no working AP solutions. This is ultimately why I abandoned development of AP and Osada. You're absolutely correct - AP wasn't created to solve any problems I have. But it's not all bad. Zot6 is now a thing and in production and it uses ActivityStreams for serialisation and just wraps it in a nomadic zot envelope. It's only AP we had to discard. There are some useful pieces of that stack that we've integrated into zot6 and zot7, just none of the crap. And since we (i.e. Zap) no longer federate with AP directly, it really doesn't matter what Mastodon or Pleroma do to that trainwreck. It might affect PixelFed or Pterotype, but we're just cruising along unscathed by the never-ending dramas.
@macgirvin Basically, my concern is that I want people to be able to bring their whole presence wherever they want to go, that supports our methods anyways.  So by that I mean not just the user account, the shell if you will, but all of the content, media, etc either.  That's a little dicier to do alright in some senses, and easier in others.  Ideally, I'd like to see something truly peer-to-peer, but in spite of some enthusiasm from others, I think we're a fair way out from that.  Until we get that far, we need to ensure that server operators can have sensible restrictions about what users take with them, and some protection that they're not bringing anything illegal onto their door stop.

I suppose in the end the problem there is more social/legal than technical, but still needs some thinking.
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SocialFTP - Social Media as more of an Open Access (or extended view) from a file directory / FTP style interface / SFTP access to user disk space - directory directly becoming Social... or as extension / plugin to Mastodon-like soccial... more open access / less Amazon S3 space (and building from our online selves)... even just as front interface to 'see' as a skeleton list before anything - Social becoming my directory and yours that is a real / wider representation of users favourites (various combinations of components possible in Social👤FTP📂...) 

@maiyannah@community.highlandarrow.com @macgirvin Forgive me for dreaming a bit - hit and miss but some gems I hope...

Over the years I've admired and appreciated those that have in-depth knowledge BUT can also talk in the way you. Articulation and acceptance of views as the winner / creme of crop.

Ideas here are summed up as:
Social👤FTP📂 ➕ various adaptations possible of existing components (add and take away way what you like as fantasy or start with basics which I think we all have here but dream a bit).

For good reason these combinations might not exist either but I think we want to see more or have something more in a different way, which overall we can get around by limiting them or incrementing...

So crudely our local disk space as FTP attached to a profile
(pretty cool idea !)

Text files and jpgs etc could be taken from a standard directory and "turned" into too (if not as raw directory view even if they can or can't download).

So I would like to pitch that idea which you can think positively around with whatever or components I mention - see what you get at the end and I hope you're excited already...

Why not helping people have FTP or SFTP extension from their local existign file as part of Social?

Social👤FTP📂 ?

More below about why and why not other things - but that's the general gist....

MORE PAYING AMAZON S3 ETC ?
- Not just uploading to America or whatever... and then download again to everywhere else shrapnelling.

Less people in the middle and person appreciation.

We already have our own files and sometimes we are doing a lot of work just to 'see' it and actually don't want to see the crap.

People go to FTP directory and pick and choose (even if I don't download a single thing it's interesting as another view).
That is interesting enough to have.

📂 So a dedicated read-only directory can allow access to browse or optional offline versions of the directory (text / versions / pic gallery) and people dedicating my and you work in an overview.

No need for Life's collections, or even existing text poetry to be posted online to be valued - just a dir let's you see what social can't ! !

⛔ ⬇️ (so not download or stream but view 🔎 ...or list 📰 or less footprint ways... by name or thumbs 🖼️ is fine to start to get to know someone.

Let them explore!

This would be more social in a lot more ways (including me telling you about me) and as a dedicated all-in-one-ISH view (or just more media, not all formats) I think this scores well.

📜 Optionally some -like files in root directory could be read / "translated" or displayed into a social structure output (like readme-bio.txt as a standard name) or a social software viewer - to show things in picture thumbnails - (files made so you don't have to browse all image dirs to get feel for things - meta sample pictures)

Text would be easy to show or generate.

FTP IS NATIVE
Many files are native online if I'm not wrong or not such a heavy translation - so why re-process them and even share them with people that don't know how to do that wasting time ? (some ok but no real social builg built while trump musk team up as / etc-

OWN BASIC YOUTUBE
Cut out the uploading / re-uploading and not even demand resources from PeerTube until really important - no need put up another viewer far far away trying to route small-inside-big-tech to others... as a remote server or copying it constantly as smaller shrapnel to federating ot places (?). A lot of work / heat... a bit of vibes there perhaps...

ADD ON OR EXTENSION...?
Some of this idea of file access could be as a minor or major function or extension / extended part to this overall existing social profile.

I can Appreciate if I'm chopping things or not wording it right but I'll be here in audio chat if interested,

==============
AGAIN THE REST IS MORE ON THAT - CAN SKIP THE BELOW IF THAT MEANS YOU'LL ANSWER NOW AND NOT FALL ASLEEP !
THANKS
==============

Something of an extension or plugin to a style social could act as interface to what is simply a directory for a user to view and or share direct. That seems like a very simple premise and heart of what almost all people want. (put aside bandwidth for now and imagine / pretend it be to view-mode only or for select people to access fully). The idea and access ⭐

Right now we're uploading to Amazon S3 / Bezos or whoever / wherever in America and it gets copies (feeding them more) and our people are paying them heaps and then complaining we are not socially together or staying unintelligent (developing tech not developing people or their own made stuff).

So having our own existing diskspace and "view ports" as a better front to represent ourselves on a file basis seems super cool (will take critique later so build your list of good also first!) and as get the idea of that and people that way...
There might be no need to even write a bio more than leaving a text file in top level of shared directory.

In FTP / SFTP how easy was / is to change any filename online. It was instant. you need manually to add filename per video (or maybe you can batch now and include video names audo-filled in)? But then changing name after isn't easy for more than 1 file )

Seems so much more trouble than humble file or text name which could be on request for download / on demand only and be allowed via password or 1-time token.

Seems now we have copies FLYING AROUND and a lot of crap we don't ask for CONSUMING OUR TIME like kittens in a screen of crap... we end up 'naturally' from that which is fine actually but maybe some of us want to be person orientated or 1-at-a-time as you can't keep see here unless work and life is perhaps and if anyone people have 5 websites - /github, , , collections etc.

So a basic view or version we can see from afar *first* and optionally more... Didn't we used to that more directly? 💾 💻 💿

TROUBLE - PUT TO THE SIDE... !
The download speed could be a later issue - but pretend 📞 ~56K speed was ok to list things and worth a 1 by 1 basis for more whole basic service into someone's world- of course people have bigger pipes too so probably will be better than that. :Pipe_right: :mariones:

🎈 Big files could be by request / justified on demand - and so the need to talk to people comes up again for people like me and respect is shown if interested or even dismissed.

:debian: still use / very similar. This tells me something about efficiency.

And of course people can find there big generic hollywood files elsewhere or do personal / / if needed or see archive.org etc for bigger archived things or even leave it to them to do.

FTP / SFTP has "Update the file" and "instantly it's done" or on next refresh of browser.
Peertube takes time I think to show files and edit decriptions. I can't even show a text-only list of files of any user I'm right?. Just an example it's just different / for .

So while I'm not comparing directly to Peertube, that's one use I'd like to see from a user and it's not even there as basic .

PICK AND CHOOSE
I suggest looking at positive perspectiveS and building into it if exciting enough... as an existing directory on a hard disk that shares / shows our interests without mass upload or description editing first - Not sure it's bad to have both...

PYSCHOLOGY / HELPING OTHERS
People can actually share on-the-fly :kirby_fly: and even sort their shit because I would *certainly* sort my shit out and they would theirs if they would KNOW people would be looking at it and not talking about our leaders professionally shafting us and further taking away powers and inheritance from the future.

Offline files become sorted as more people are interested and give a better reason (or better structure) to be better online.

Instead of copying only select things to social or temporary funnies - which can make it what we and they want.

Even if it's just a file name gesture of a thought or token icon of files I think this is nice - better than force fed memes or focus on Trump everywhere . It's about us (small tear!) 😂 more personally...

Somehow with this idea we need to get better...

Even if for the experts at first... or to use less the sharing-platforms for chaos -

I see the theory of just browsing ALL things or testing first with as really interesting (directly viewing things OR only as thumbnail-created sample view files) so people can see pages as 1 large thumbs file quickly without downloading individual files or creating a post for each.
Leaves us a quick type thing.

SAFETY ETC ?
This idea could building what is safe already or putting limitations on software and just linking to certain files - and as safer file view is developed - then we can do more with other files.

Our existing browser interface already does these files (maybe not much difference to f-ing up!) but for some reason technically (good and bad) the files have to hop back and forth from America and bring it back here - increasingly with less reason or just more (also the big powers are just blocking people / doing censorship based on our privacy profile or browers we us), Not long simple protocols.

had the power is because it is *native* to ALL linux systems and that is mega for a 70 year old protocol ➡️ still to be there rocking the sites of experts, ISO, pictures, clips... efficiently natively - raw basic content... I think this is why I am here saying this.

So it's a stupid question maybe with great result - 'why can't we *try* have a 'file explorer' type things for social until we're actually interested in downloading and then figure it out or leave it on slow download...

Not direct download for all perhaps but ANYWAY Fediverse is getting heavy - AND heavier and heavier as need for instances and long-life given to crap happens ( included) with infinite shelf life without conversation. We don't need to have burning energy let's face it for a lot of this one-way stuff that never aims or is people-powered enough to acumilate / convert and instead just burns until the user expires :nes_fire: 🖼️

As ethereal me as directory online or as a native / automatic front fascia representation means people can really attract something different...

Please stick with me on what you can as this I feel is what people want, more FULL overview / as much as we can almost since we're getting digitally disabled / overwhelmed / reduced today to memes and talking about stupid leaders ...

We need a "here's my stuff please look before I die" and acknowledge my existence before we get pimped further by and attempts to not build trust together instead. Time wasted.

A lot of media is mixed or takes too long to explain or need not on social all the time - meanings are often not-translated well (unless your "just a Tehchie" and not interested in anything else).

It's love for the collection of things somehow I think that wins and by browsing something fast like FTP (or maybe it is slow but more of a real experience) you're willing to wait like previous cassette loading times !...

📂 🚋 "I like trains" ok directory here
📂 :rainbowdance: "I want to save the world" ok see this
📂 🍪 "I want to cook something" see my dir

It's a more whole view or traversing thing the human does for fun. (languages gets in the way or are not lists of text).

True maybe not many care but we still have to build maybe different with heart, work and soul to see more than text mainly or shattered pieces and forgetting people (not all fault just as another tool / view).

A kind of social on top of file-sharing directory or even side by side / extension / extended version to achieve primary achievement of all my stuff... in one view / start point for conversing in Mastodon maybe...

I know it's wild but something actually with people's files to browse would be awesome - to allow them to share in that way AND THEN develop plugging problems in other formats / views
:)
The lush access to each others stuff I'm sure is a great hook - I'll be happy to test -

Also keeps the old systems alive (can't install without 64bit browser TERRIBLE!)

After we can consider sorting the can of worms opened to achieve that kind of native basic all is good (for example dedicated to opening / checking files in a or verifying them from hashs or as a one-time pass safe checked and keeping the hash to avoid rechecking those files).

🥫 can + 🐛 worms = fun things to solve (then achieving greatness)...

It would be revolutionary and fun - if we could get into the negative *only if* also thinking about positively fusing it all nicely - that would be good.

f you can see the love for a bit more wider universal view / view access (even if not all files) that would be much more free to browse as all in one... Socially? (need people to encourage but word might spread a bit better this way more than ).

Benefits / Aims as Addendums:

- might come into it at some point... stopping censorship surely on it's way...

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