Despite the fantastic alternatives I have seen many things that can only be done with excel and outlook... even further... I still run into things that can only be done with 32 bit versions of excel and outlook.

@keith @amerika @kreyren like what

VBscript, Active X stuff, oddball plugins that last received an update 15 years ago but a business relies on it.

I have a client that does HVAC automation and their software only runs on 95/98/ME and is picky as hell on what typed of DB9 serial port it will work on.

@keith @amerika @kreyren Okay, yeah, that kind of stuff absolutely is the province of old Office. Actually, I don't think tech spergs really appreciate the extent to which these businesses rely on this ancient software to function, and they don't care about anybody's free as in freedom ramblings, because their making their shit work is their priority, and it begins and ends there.

I have a guy that machines car part replacements and the equipment costs 100k+ and it will only play nice on XP... We built a Win7 box that does the job 95% of the time but all it takes is a crash or a drop of communication to ruin an expensive slab.

We keep a stable of 486 through P4 Dell computers for these customers. Though we do it up with IDE to compact flash adapter and put in modern power supplies. Some of the Dell towers need a wiring harness to adapt standard ATX to the motherboard.

It's super niche but for the area we are in, and the 6 hour turn around time. They will happily pay 10k for a pentium 4 with XP and bench labor that is a drop in replacement that allows their business to get back to operating.

@keith @amerika @kreyren But what about ganoo????

@keith @kreyren

This is consistent with my experience.

I believe there could be a better office suite... and when there is, Windows dominance will fall.

I believe better alternatives already exist. MS and Windows thrives on legendary backwards compatibility. Businesses need that kind of stability and long term support.

Linux, fire up an ISO from 5 years ago... Good luck with dependencies and the repos. Apple they change CPU architectures, killed 32 bit a couple years ago, drop hardware support, kill entire swaths of applications.

(and thats good, I love Linux and macOS)

But Windows has always been about carrying the legacy code, libraries, frameworks, all that shit forward. for better or worse. So businesses will stick with it. I support a boatload of people running XP and 7 still. Because the stuff keeps working.

Even a 32bit Windows 10 installation will handle most 16 bit software.

MS dipped their toe into ARM architecture with the Surface RT running an ARM version of Windows 8... everyone hated it because people choose Windows for Win32 apps. If they had made a translation layer like Apple did for 68k > PPC > Intel > Apple Silicon... maybe it would have gone better...

no different than choosing a super nintendo over a genesi if you wanted square RPGs.

@keith @kreyren

A good point, and an important strength of Windows.

However for the everyday user, relatively current software is most important.

That starts with having a functional office suite and other types of software that are now essentials.

absolutely. most everyday users are well served by a phone, tablet, chrome book. The OS is of no consequence.

on the backend people still have their retirement accounts running on cobal or fortran.

average person just needs an https connection that supports modern ssl and a browser engine that renders the shit proper.

but the dude with the cnc machine for his shop needs 32bit windows without surprises.

@keith @kreyren

It's amazing how much of our world runs on older code.

But if it works... no reason to throw it out.

I like backward compatibility. It can be limiting at a certain point, but accumulating software tools is also useful.

@keith @amerika @kreyren
>MS and Windows thrives on legendary backwards compatibility. Businesses need that kind of stability and long term support
>Linux, fire up an ISO from 5 years ago... Good luck with dependencies and the repos.
That's the thing a lot of FOSS people don't get. Yes it is nice to be able to fuck with the source and make your own builds or whatever (at one point I wanted to try writing Pleroma MRFs and whatever but it's on hold untill I get my other instance back up and running) but for "mission critical" setups I want something that worked 10 years ago, works now and will work 10 years in the future

>I support a boatload of people running XP and 7 still
A few months ago had to pull some data from a system running SQL Server, didn't check the exact version but I distinctly remember it didn't support a particular function that was inroduced with 2008 so it was probably SQL Server 2005. Also recently I was setting up a system that requires Visual C++ 2008. Seems like a lot of people forgot the good old "If it ain't broken don't fix it" lol

@shitpisscum @keith @kreyren

People want stuff to rely on that just works and keeps working.

FOSS is driven by hobbyists who want to expand whatever area fascinates them, so it is inconsistent and sometimes random.

@amerika @keith @kreyren Yea I get why it's like that, I meant this from a perspective of someone who doesn't even know what a "software" is and just need something that will do whatever needs to be done lol

@shitpisscum @keith @kreyren

That is, in my view, the target audience. Most do not care how it works; they want something that does what they need without too much fiddling.

This is why they buy Windows/MacOS.

@amerika @keith @kreyren
>Most do not care how it works; they want something that does what they need without too much fiddling
Exactly what I'm trying to say

@shitpisscum @keith @kreyren

Yep, I am agreeing and adding a couple tidbits.

@amerika LibreOffice

next?

@kreyren

Not up to snuff, I'm afraid.

@kreyren @amerika word online is better to use than libreoffice tbh

@kreyren @amerika have also yet to find anything nicer than paint.net; sits at the intersection of mspaint and photoshop

@errante @kreyren

I might have to try this.

@amerika @kreyren ivw been a linux user for a solid 5 years now and paint.net is the only thing i mkss