I doubt a single one of the COVID conspiracy theory nutters out there could even answer this quiz, and this is just the basic level.

@freemo I don't care about the vaccine safety any more. I'm upset about being compelled to take it.

@swiley I agree 100% with you, thats an issue. But then again thats just as much the conspirasy theorists fault as it is the governments. If so many people werent out there spreading lies convincing people to put their lives at risk there wouldnt have been the need.

@freemo There's arguably no need regardless.

@swiley While I dont agree that it should be forced on anyone, there is a need, and the conspiracy theorists created it.

There are countless people who beleived their lies and arent smart enough to know better who are going to die. It has kept the vaccinations from reaching herd immunity and as such the potential for ever more variants to arise.

So the need is preventing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people that anti-vaxers have caused.. yes there is a "need", I just dont feel that justified forced vaccination no matter how big that need may be

@freemo Israel has nearly 100% vaccination and has no herd immunity.
The virus is not as deadly as people say it is and there are alternative treatments that work better as Japan, Mexico, and India have found.
Pushing the vaccine instead of Ivermectin and antibodies is killing people.

@swiley Wrong, Israel has <80% vaccinated as of the latest figures and herd immunity kicks in above 80% with this virus.. So no they dont have herd immunity yet.

Also remember what I said, herd immunity only works when the entire population reaches it quickly (before variants have a chance to form which accelerates as you vaccinate before reaching herd immunity). We achieved herd immunity with smallpox, for example, because the campaign was global and that was a bit of an easier virus in terms of variants.

@freemo I thought Fauci said 50%.

@swiley I have no idea what Fauci said, nor do I care what he or any one specific doctor says. I care about the scientific consensus which has herd immunity well above 80%

@freemo @swiley So that may have been true with the OG variant, but Delta actually is beyond the capability of the vaccines (even with 100% vaccination).

Delta has a HIT of around ~90% based on its R0. This is compared to the ~70% (being generous) effectiveness of the vaccines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

@GodfreyHendrix

Well its not that simple. The vaccine's effectiveness means that even if a person with the vaccine catches it their viral load is much less and the ability to infect others is much less than it would be without the vaccine. So its not really an all or nothing calculation.

That said even if we did assume that the vaccine missed its mark because we didnt vaccinate fast enough to get to herd immunity before a variant was produced that just means we have to repeat the process and be quicker. Get everyone vaccinated and herd immunity for the first virus, then produce a new vaccine that targets the vaccine and ensure we vaccinate much quicker and get the herd immunity this time around and not take a year to vaccinate everyone.

So either way you look at it, the solution would come from vaccinating quickly and with near 100% coverage.

@swiley

@freemo @GodfreyHendrix
>So either way you look at it, the solution would come from vaccinating quickly and with near 100% coverage.
That's just not going to happen. There are too many people that have no formal connections to anything (homeless/transients/illegals) so if that's what's necessary for vaccines to be viable then they're hopeless.

@swiley

Our past success with other vaccinations exceeding 80% would prove you wrong. We hit 80% vaccination rate with smallpox and a great many other vaccines in the past.

@GodfreyHendrix

@freemo @GodfreyHendrix It looks like smallpox was incredibly deadly (at least 100 times that of Covid ) and not as infectious.
1) The percent of immune people doesn't need to be as high
2) People need little convincing to take the vaccine.

@swiley

You seem to be missing the fact that the percentage that needed to be vaccinated in order to create herd immunity with small pox is about the same as that for covid, so anything else is moot, we know we are capable of reaching the needed herd immunity world wide because we did it before. The only question is if we can vaccinate people fast enough.

@GodfreyHendrix