@freemo there was a post on twitter where, trump is dismissing his lower rating in a poll as fake news, i replied to the reply which someone just had LOL LOL etc loads of times, with the question LOL aside what happens if a serving president says the result of an election is fake news and refuses to step aside.

Under normal circumstances, that suggestion would be crazy, esp in teh US, but hey with trump at the helm who knows.

@zleap If your going to argue trump is stupid and dangerous you wont get any argument out of me.. The difference is I also think the democrats are stupid and dangerous too.

@freemo Yeah, not really much better over here in the UK, Kier starmer is proabably batter than Jeremy corbyn was though,

Thing is alst time labour were in , we ended up in Iraq on lies, adn the country ended up bankrupt, labour wanted to re nationalise everything, which would have cost billions.

@zleap I generally see the UK as one small notch better than the USA, but generally spiraling down the drain too, just for entierly different reasons.

Much of the world is going downhill honestly but thankfully many countries arent so far ahead on that race as America is at least.

@freemo Over here Churchills statue was defaced over the weekend with the addition of the words 'was a racist', so apparently, according to the person that did it (via Daily Mail of course) Churchill fought WWII not for people of colour or anyone else but for colonialism.

Says a lot about the Education system if people think that,. Sure maybe he wasn't perfect but he saved this country, Europe and much more besides that, And yes the US and UK stood side by side as allies.

@zleap racism is such a tricky word.. pretty much anyone who doesnt fit someones ideology exactly is a racist and deserving of absolute hatred..

Me.. I see the spectrum and I try to put it in the context of thet ime.

For example a lot of people here are calling Thomas Jefferson a racist. There are some points that seem to make it obvious to those people, namely he owned slaves, which is more than enough to frame him as such (and I can see why they can think that without applying more critical thought or time on the subject)...

But when you look deeper you find he was very actively against slavery. He wrote a book strongly crying out against slavery, and he was one of the earliest abolitionists in USA, since its founding, well ahead of his time.

Even the fact that he had slaves can somewhat be explained within the context of the time. While many slaves wanted equality at the time many explicitly did not want to be freed individually. That usually meant poverty and a garunteed lynching. They felt safer and more protected as a slave to a generous master than to be free in a state that is so actively racist they would be killed on sight. He treated his slaves very good, gave them good conditions, good food, treated them as best one would expect given they were slaves, all the while doing everything he could to try to forge equality so he could one day safely free them and they could go on to live a life afterwards.

@freemo People seem to never see the whole picture,. I guess this is almost like the #MeTo movement again, if you breathed on someone in the wrong way 10+ years go, we are going out get you kicked out.

Lots of Lynching and not much actual solving of problems.

But yea a statue in Bristol of a Slave owner was pushed in to teh canal, sure he owned slaves and was rich but he gave a lot of that money to the right causes, so probably like jefferson, but the fact he owned slaves made him Mr bad guy .

@zleap Yup, the problem is radicalization of both sides..

The horshoe theory is correct but confusing. It doesnt mean that both sides have the same core ideals, they dont. But they do have the same level of immaturity and radicalization in those ideas.

Same abusive personalities just with a different set of misguided morals, morals that in a less radicalized form would actually be good, from either side.

@freemo Yeah, not really sure what to suggest, for either side, all i can seem to observe is while the west is falling in to the Abyss China, and other countries are rising, to take their place.