FailForward @FailForward@qoto.org

@bonifartius

I'd say it strongly depends on the country/culture/social bubble you are in. There are segments of western societies where participation in hobby clubs/extracurricular
activities is a thing. These are often long-term projects with a strong sense of teamwork. And also, professional work activities can serve this well - as far as one has a level of control and agency in them, which is again a function of the local culture and perhaps also the level of affluence in the given context.

@zleap @thor @shibao @evelyn

Taking it a bit farther back to the original observation that most psych advice out there targets women, your observation would explain why it actually is so. So what would be the equivalent of a mental health advice magazine column for men? Perhaps your local DIY store ? 😄

@bonifartius @zleap @thor @shibao @evelyn

@bonifartius This was a very good take on this topic. Thanks a lot! Especially this bit:

> i think men take strength out of _doing_ things together, while women tighten their bonds by talking about their feelings.

@zleap @thor @shibao @evelyn

@georgia This one is indeed served as a side dish to soak in sauces's flavour, but there are savoury varieties with fresh herbs too, like e.g., this

@piggo

@thor Your initial description was _i’ve just had to carry myself by my bootstraps_ which points to a greater resiliency. What you write later on indeed indicates that it was (is?) an extremely bumpy ride, so I take back what I said. Anyhow, I recommend the book wholeheartedly. It gives solid understanding of what is going on in lives of many people around and provides a solid scientific conceptual structure around it. And it's not a hogwash handwaving. The author is not a psychologist and does not dabble in psychology. It is solid medicine, biology/biochemistry and loads and loads of empirical research.

@shibao @evelyn @zleap

@thor Which would still put you squarely in the dandelion part of the spectrum. Orchids typically can't do it, they are too prone to environmental influences.

@shibao @evelyn @zleap

@piggo @georgia It's no too difficult to make (if you know our way around yeast dough). In this specific case, the main problem would be the type of flour to use. In CZ/SK it's normal to use differently milled flour, while in Western EU, you'll find only fine milled variant, which is not good for this. I figured a way around it for some countries, but nothing beats half-coarse milled flour for knoedel.

@thor

very very very relevant reading: https://www.amazon.com/Orchid-Dandelion-Children-Struggle-Thrive/dp/1101946563/

@shibao @evelyn @zleap

@georgia Boehmerknoedel 😄
@piggo

@thor Well, that is a laudable mission there.
@shibao @evelyn @zleap

@piggo Come on, it's a good joke!

@thor

What I was hinting at was that when somebody, for whatever reason, does not/can not consider that the solution to their problem has a lot to do with them, they simply are not accessible to advice and help.

At least the psychologists I met and stuff I read clearly says: you cannot help people who do not want to be helped.

That is what meant by "being reflective" - to have at least some doubts about whether help is even possible.

@shibao @evelyn @zleap

@piggo I guess this wasn't the intention, but it gave the post an entirely different flavour:

@zleap Yeah, that's right. But then you attract only weirdos who keep going despite feeling that they have no clue and then realize ex-post what it's all about. No wonder this place is full of technical people and renegades who cannot find a calm place elsewhere 🙂

@piggo

@thor

The diagnosis is clear. But I wonder whether you can significantly prevent that radicalisation easily. It seems to me to have something to do with the ability to reflect. If you are unhappy and deeply convinced it's due to some external factors (the world is bad!), it's just a matter of time for you to find the "correct" culprit. If, on the other hand, you are quite self-reflective, you'd be probably suspicious about external factors and would also consider internal ones, which is the path towards self-improvement, studying a bit on psychology, mental health issues, etc.

What I am saying is this: people who ONLY consider external reasons for their internal emotional/mental states seem to be rather oblivious to topics of mental health.

@shibao @evelyn @zleap

@zleap How can you be serious about something you don't even understand?

For me it was exactly the thrill of meeting something I did not understand at the first sight what made me go on. Maybe that's the filter: it passes people who are attracted by "weird" and "not-easily comprehensible". But my initial confusion was real.

@piggo

@zleap @piggo I don't know and honestly don't care too much. What I am saying is that Fediverse has a problem with the on-boarding experience.

You effectively get a whole new conceptual world dumped on you. Too much friction.

But then again: it's a filter too. You get to speak mostly to people who passed the test 🙂 . Not that they are somehow nicer bunch, but at certain level there are some commonalities in personalities, I suppose.

@thor

In that case apologise. And I leave it at that.

@shibao @evelyn

@piggo @zleap Maybe the problem is branding:
1. world: Mastodon is good
2. me: Masto what? Where?
3. me: aha, Mastodon, whatever
4. world: Fediverse!
5. me: Masto vs. Fediverse vs. XYZ?!? WTF!?
6. me: study for 2+ days to grok this sh*t. As a software guy, I tell you 2 days is a lot.

So what do you expect from laymen? No wonder they can't turn their heads around it.

Perhaps it should go more like this:
1. world: Fediverse!
2. person: Fedi what? Where?
3. person: right, I can be on Fediverse tweets, with blogs, with pics, or videos, whichever I want
4. right...

I.e., instead of Mastodon, Pleroma, Friendica, Peertube, etc. which are all confusing, there should be a single brand plastered over all of them with a single name, single brand, single logo. Something like this - you get the idea I hope.

@piggo @dragnucs I think it's called Digital Wellbeing app, or something like that