If you are outdoors in a cold polar region during the day what will keep you warmer?

Details: The color is on the outside, the inside you can assume is a neutral gray for simplicity.

my answer 

@freemo

Black absorbs more EM than white, but black objects also radiate more. All matter above 0 degrees K radiate EM known as "black body radiation". Black objects radiate that energy more quickly than white objects, so they get cold more quickly.

"During the day in a polar region", means that in the dead of winter it's dark out, even at noon. (The question didn't specify the season.) If the sun is below the horizon or very low in the sky (i.e., traveling through a lot of atmosphere), the solar EM wouldn't be much, in which case the black would radiate more energy than the white, and the inside would get colder.

Also, even if there is some sun, the surface of the coat is on the outside of the insulation, so any heat that it absorbs would quickly radiate back out into the air before that heat could penetrate the insulation to help warm you up.

I didn't look any of this up, it all from memory so I can't guarantee it's accuracy.

my answer 

@Pat That last sentence looked a bit off to me. Isn't it "I didn't look any of this up, it's all from memory so I can't guarantee its accuracy."?

@freemo

my answer 

@trinsec @freemo

Yeah, I kind of scrambled my plurals/possessives on the "it"s.

Dyslexia seems to be acting up at the moment for some reason, I 'm making all kinds mistakes in my writing...

my answer 

@Pat

Hmmm dyslexia. I wish i had that "excuse" :)

@trinsec

my answer 

@freemo @trinsec

A lot people have undiagnosed dyslexia. I've noticed that you often confuse things like "your" and "you're". You may have it and not know it.

my answer 

@Pat

I use your by default mostly because I type to fast and dont review what I write. Couple that with the fact that i got into the habit by typing on my phone where an apostrophe is a bit tedious. That particular error, as most of my errors, are largely due to not caring and typing as fast as I can since i dont find the medium to be critical for correctness.

My formal writeups, as well as my blogs, tend to have very few errors since I proof read them.

That said my natural rate of errors has been unusually high the last 2 years since my injury and COVID largely due to the extremely high levels of stress I've been under which seems to effect the prevelance.

@trinsec

my answer 

@freemo @Pat

Oh man...

Ok the real challenge here is to find a sentence without mistakes. ;)

my answer 

@trinsec

hahaha valid. Honestly if i could actually edit posts on here there would be a lot fewer of them. At least on matrix i will occasionally correct my mistakes. Here I see them but usually after i already posted and only once i reread it when going over replies.

@Pat

my answer 

@freemo I do tend to delete and redraft in the first minute or so, and if nobody's replied yet. Otherwise it is a 'oh shit, oh well, move on, next time better'.

@Pat

my answer 

@trinsec

I used to do that but with 20K some followers it pissed off a lot of people, way more than just keeping the typos.

@Pat

my answer 

@freemo Heh... valid point.
That said, I tend to take like 10 minutes per email just to make sure my answer makes total sense and contains no mistakes. I tend to do the same for my initial toots often as well.

@Pat

@trinsec @freemo

When spell-checkers came out, it was a godsend for me. If I left my spelling mistakes in my writing, you wouldn't be able to make out half of what I was saying, it's so bad.

A lot times I can't find the words in the dictionary because I can't spell it close enough to find it. I use Google a lot now because they have AI/phonetics algorhtms.

(I left that last word misspelled, just so you could see how I tried to spell it unassisted so you get a feel what I face with this issue. It's a real pain.)

@Pat

I dont use spellcheckers. I dont need that kind of negativity in my life!

@trinsec

@freemo @trinsec

Is that everyone gets pissed off at me when I try to correct their grammar?

@Pat I appreciate the correction if it's informative. I mean, how else are you gonna learn?

But I know people who absolutely hate to be corrected in any way possible. Can't always win, I suppose.

@freemo

@trinsec

I hate to be corrected. If I am corrected I cant say I'm always right anymore. Why would anyone want to be wrong!

@Pat

@Pat You don't get his thinking pattern... he just wasn't wrong to begin with. ;)

@freemo

@trinsec

I'm starting to think you might be the smartest person on this server :)

@Pat

Follow

@freemo @trinsec
>That would still make me right only 50% of the time. If I am never corrected then I'm right 100% of the time.

This is why Trumpian delusion has so much mass appeal.

@Pat

Delusion? Trump is the best president we ever had. Just ashame the election was rigged and they illegally deposed him with Biden.

(That was painful to say, even ironically)

@trinsec

@freemo @trinsec

Deposed him? What do mean? He's still the president.

@Pat

What you didnt see the video where they stored official ballots underneath a table thus definitively proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the election was rigged?

@trinsec

@freemo @trinsec

>What you didnt see the video...

What I saw was a narcissist whose ego was so fragile that he was willing to take down the country rather than face the reality of his own failure.

@Pat

Yea, thats an accurate description for Biden, that bastard! :)

@trinsec

@freemo @Pat You both are just terrible at faking Trumpism. ;)

@trinsec

Fake? ::injects some cow dewormer as he recites the pledge of allegiance::

@Pat

@freemo @trinsec
>where everything will kill you if you are within 5 feet of it.

Sounds like social distancing at a crowded grocery store during a pandemic.

@Pat

Pretty much, just replace COVID with super-ebola and you will be in the ballpark :)

@trinsec

@freemo @trinsec

Yeah, covid just seemed that way. Ironically, the more deadly contagions are less of a pandemic threat because they kill off the hosts before they have a chance to transmit the disease, thus keeping the spread in check.

@Pat Actually the idea that more lethal viruses are less of a thread isnt actually true. For example if a virus kills 100% of victims but takes 30 days to do it it will still spread quite a bit if it is contagious enough.

I debated this some months back and if you look at a comparison between R0 and morality they arent really strongly correlated at all.

@trinsec

@freemo @trinsec

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think there's an inverse correlation between R0 and how *quickly* a disease kills/disables its victims (not lethality), all other variables being equal.

@Pat

It depends. If it kills you quickly this often suggests that the virus has a high viral load that develops quickly. Meaning it would also have a higher transmissability despite having a shorter period of time where it is contagious.

So it really just depends on a few factors.

@trinsec

@freemo Yeah, that, and Americans. ;) That's totally a factor too!

@Pat

@freemo On the other hand, if a virus kills 100%, social distancing might actually be followed more tightly, lessening the spread (and thus the threat).

Unless we're talking about Americans... ;)

@Pat

@trinsec

I carry a fork around with me and just stab anyone in the eye who comes within arms reach. I havent had much problem with people refusing to socially distance :)

@Pat

@trinsec

There is usually a stick attached to the base of the fork :) When i dont have a fork I always have my gun as a last resort... god bless america.

@Pat

@freemo @trinsec

> carry a fork around with me and just stab anyone in the eye who comes within arms reach.

qoto.org/@Pat/1062361776696667

@Pat

At the time I think i missed the hashtag that said joke honestly. Or I think you posted a less joke-like statement that was similar in the days prior.

@trinsec

@freemo @trinsec

I think I was still kind of new here and folks didn't understand my humor yet.

@Pat

That too yes :) I recall we talked it through and ultimately found your opinion acceptable. You were also a bit more angry than usual at the time since mask mandates had just been lifted which seemed to rile you a bit.

@trinsec

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@trinsec @freemo

>...if a virus kills 100%, social distancing might actually be followed more tightly, lessening the spread

Yes, human behavior is a big part of it. With diseases like ebola with all of the bleeding, or small pox with the facial deformities, those diseases probably spread less than they would otherwise because people take them more seriously.

@Pat

Honestly 90% of the reason people are so reluctant to COVID vaccination or recognizing its severity is because both the democrats and republicans made it a political battle rather than working together and finding a middle ground that was denialism or forcing people at gunpoint to obey.

@trinsec

@Pat Covid is actually pretty 'smart' for a virus. Everything is so very long term that we can't oversee it (yet). Long covid is a thing, but it's not that very well known. If any, I'm kinda impressed by it.

@freemo

@trinsec

Long before we even had a vaccine I mentioned that vaccines would fail no matter how many people were on board, and surprise surprise, it played out almost exactly the way I claimed.

There is a reason we have never had a successful vaccine to any coronavirus class virus in existance. Every vaccine we tried never made it to market due to the exact sorts of problems we are seeing

@Pat

@freemo Have you considered the need for boosters in your equation, though? Long covid and risk of needing hospitalization so far seems to have decreased hugely with the vaccine.

The current ones needing hospitalization despite being vaccinated are the ones who got vaccinated the first in the timeline, and also very usually are either elderly or have more ailments than just this virus. They're highly due for boosters now.

That's the same situation in Israel. I remember us chatting about this, and the Israelians (is this a word? Well, it is now.) were among the first to get vaccinated. Not too surprising that about 6 months later there was another surge.

Vaccinations aren't 100% effective, but we already agreed on that. Boosters would be a likely necessity, but we already knew of that. That's why the current talk is now 'BOOSTERS!'. We'll see how that pan out, I think they might help.

@Pat

@trinsec

When i explained my concerns in the past I did go into detail on boosters. What I had said at the time is that for a vaccine to have any potential of working it would need boosters that would likely need to be very frequent, on the order of every 3 months to 6 months, which is not practical as a long term solution and overtime presents ever increasing risk since the nature of mutation of corona class viruses are not like flu viruses. A flu virus undergoes recombination and thus its next gen viruses are not any more deadly or specialized, they just make the vaccine less effective. Corona class viruses as they mutate to stay ahead of vaccines undergo a more classical form of mutation and as such create an ever increasing risk as you vaccinate against it, presuming you even find a booster every 6 months to be palatable at all.

@Pat

@freemo @trinsec

Polio vax required four to complete the series, three oral and one jab. (Polio was transmitted via digestive tract, thus the oral vax.)

COVID-19 may need a nasal spray along with 2-3 jabs to complete the series.

@Pat

Polio virus isnt comparable. They are of the class Picornavirus which are quite easy to vaccinate against. Corona class viruses are entirely different category and have never been able to be vaccinated against perminately no matter how many doses you take.

@trinsec

@freemo Yeah, as this is still largely untested fields for this virus you certainly do have a point. Though there are more factors at play, of course.

I see boosters as a way to buy time at the moment until we have a more permanent solution. Even without boosters the virus would mutate anyway.

Also, boosters can still go two ways at this point. Either you would need regular boosters, or the third (or maybe fourth) booster would be the end solution. Some vaccinations for other ailments needed a 3rd booster much later as well. But seeing as we haven't got much long-term experience yet with this virus it is still largely guess-work at this time.

@Pat

@trinsec

For boosters to buy us time at all we would need to engineer a new RNA sequence every 3 - 6 months. Usually vaccine testing takes longer than this so the only way boosters will really be effective (most likely) is if we throw the usual safety testing out the window.

That said also keep in mind that while boosters may buy us some time it means every new booster that targets the new strain will likely give rise to a newer even worse strain. So you may find going that path doesnt buy us time at all but pushes the virus evolution to the point where the problem becomes even harder to solve and in the end make matters much much worse (potentially)

While you are right the virus mutates regardless of boosters, and that the vaccine doesnt **cause** the mutation what the vaccine does do is it causes new mutations to be **selected for**. This means that without a vaccine new mutations will come, be very low prevelance (well below 0.1%) and then die off as they cant compete against the pathway of the original virus. The vaccine however gets rid of the base virus and thus allows the new strain to become selected for at which point you will see its prevalence skyrocket nearly over night from <0.1% to 99%, the exact opposite of dying off. This is exactly what happened with Delta.

The other thing about boosters is two fold 1) as with all coronaviruses immunity tends to be temporary (anywhere from weeks to a few years) so you need a booster that is the same as the original every few months 2) coronaviruses mutate fairly quickly so you also get new strains arising. Meaning you need to double-dose, one booster every few months for the old strain AND new boosters you have to start repeating for new strains.

Point is, if you go down the vaccination route it becomes unmanageable very quickly.

@Pat

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