@freemo According to https://qoto.org/about/more says #hate_speech is against laws and one would be banned because of it.
Does this mean that a #Muslim expressing their religious belief about man-to-man intercourse is a hate speech? According to #Quran this is a shameful deed and according to #hadith there is death penalty for both parties having such an intercourse.
@farooqkz @freemo
What is your real purpose in asking this question?
Surely you don’t need to ask if advocating killing people is hate speech.
A more interesting question is whether this is hate speech against Muslims.
Consider this view is far from universal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam
Consider that Leviticus 20:13, in at least the King James translation, calls for the same thing.
I can’t speak to the Jewish view here, but Christians view the Old Testament to have been supplanted by a less-harsh message of the New Testament.
(Before making assumptions about the Jewish view of Leviticus, keep in mind that the King James translation contains 2 references to unicorns—down from Tyndale’s 4).
Are you trying to incite hatred of Muslims from the LGBTQ community?
I don’t think that’s your intent, but I do think you need to reflect on why you would present the #Muslim religion as a threat.
Is defaming a religion a ban-worthy act? I don’t know. I’m new here.
But I don’t approve of it.
There are many acts which are considered a crime(a sin which has a punishment) in my religion and the punishment of many of these crimes is death.
Regarding "Advocating killing people", this is too general. In my religion I'm must kill someone who is aware and is trying to kill me and that I don't have any other way of defending myself(e.g. in a war).
Also the punishment for intentional murder is also death. And so is punishment for two who had a man-to-man sexual intercourse. Given that these hadiths are "correct". Under which conditions? I don't know.
Now if I narrate such a hadith and tell the others that it's correct and that's my belief, is this considered a hate speech?
The reason I'm asking about this, is my future actions. As I am a user of this instance, I must know its rules well so that I won't post something which is against the rules.
The reason this discussion is public is that it might benefit the others as well.
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The overwhjelming majority of Muslimns I know from around the world would never want to force their beliefs on others. They themselves would never engage in homosexuality as they do view it as against their personal morality but would never dream of imposing that on others.
So yea, the excuse of "this is my religion" doesnt cut it, because he choose that particular hateful interpritation, the religion didnt "force" it upon him.
According to hadiths, Muslims must implement punishments as much as they can. Which are for the good of society and possibly the person punishment is given to. And this isn't a personal belief, it is a religious belief. e.g. I don't have this idea, my religion has.
Regarding punishments, some are mentioned in Quran, some other in Hadiths and some other in both. For example, sexual intercourse out of marriage is illegal according to Quran and the punishment is 100 lashes in the public which must be done by an authority(government?). You can see the beginning of the 24th Surah.
Hand of thieves must be cut off according to 5:38.
And regarding anal sex between two men, the punishment is death according to the hadiths I've mentioned earlier.
P.S.: Opinion of Muslims is not relevant. For Islam you must look into Quran and Hadiths.
You might be right about that religious belief is also personal belief. But when Hadiths obviously say there is death penalty, I am trying to deceive myself if I believe otherwise. There is a proverb in Arabic "This is more obvious than the sun". If I am a believer in Muhammad, what other interpretation could I have when he says if they did so, do so.
Sorry I think I missed something which might cause misunderstood.
I think the law of Islam, a big portion of it but probably not all of it, is for Muslims. That includes things which are haram, halal, punishments, etc.
For example if I remember correctly, the Prophet Muhammad was giving punishment of Jews according to the Torah they had and not Quran.
IMO, There is no such thing as True Muslim or False Muslim. Someone is either Muslim or is not.
However if you are asking if those two men are still Muslim, I would say it really depends. And I also believe such a situation is highly improbable unless they have never looked into Quran and Hadith. If someone believes there is something forbidden in Islam and they still do it, that doesn't change anything. They are still believers in Islam and that they will pay for their sins in this world, hereafter or both.
But if someone believes that for example, the prayers are not mandatory while Quran obviously states otherwise, I suppose they are not a Muslim anymore. Being a believer has a definition in Quran. You can look at the two last verses of the 2nd Surah.
P.S.: I'm strictly talking about anal sex between two men. Not oral sex and or sex between two women. I don't know about those cases and I don't know if the current evidence can't be generalized.
>"P.S.: I'm strictly talking about anal sex between two men. Not oral sex and or sex between two women. I don't know about those cases and I don't know if the current evidence can't be generalized."
Then, are you saying that two men who love each other and butt fuck each other and interpret the Quran in a way that they believe it allows them to do that, that they are not Muslims?
@Pat @farooqkz @freemo @BobKerns @tonic Muslims that do worry about your gender options, mostly are Jihad and Shia, hezbollah/hamas. There are various Sheiks talking with gays, lesbicas on youtube and they actually cry together... (Shia are the branch of Muslims that carry those doctrines because they believe to be on the same family as the prophet, insane, but they believe it.
@wepiphany @Pat @freemo @BobKerns @tonic
That's wrong. The main difference between the Shia and Sunni is that the Shia believes that the Prophet Muhammad chose someone(Ali ibn Abitalib and his offsprings) to lead the Muslims after him. And Sunnis believe that the Prophet didn't choose anyone and left it up to people to choose. Sunnis have strong emphasis on Shura. e.g. that people together choose someone to lead them and manage their city or country. Sunni's only consider the rule of 4 or 5 after the Prophet right because they were chosen by people. After that, they consider it kingdom because people were not choosing their leaders but because someone(e.g. current King/Caliph) chose the next one who is usually his son. This belief of Sunni Muslims is so close to Modern day's democracy.
However, there are branches of Shia which don't believe that the Prophet chose someone Ali for leading after his death but that Ali was better for leading the Muslims after the Prophet than the one Muslims actually chose.
@farooqkz >"I don't like to discuss this further...."
Black resigns.
For the rest of you, here's how it plays out...
If farooqkz says that the guys in my toot above are not Muslim, then Islamic law does not apply to them, so what's the problem?
If farooqkz says that they are Muslim, then people can be Muslim and still believe that gay sex is fine, in which case the issue is a choice and farooqkz is saying that his position is his choice -- he is choosing to be homophobic.
@freemo @BobKerns @tonic