Shamar @Shamar@qoto.org

@ekaitz_zarraga @txusinho

Actually we have had a similar dynamic in #Italy: most of industrial investments have been in the northern part of the country with the centre and (much more) the southern Italy left behind (under the control of Mafia, 'Ndrangheta and other criminal organizations).

For decades we have had a political party (#LegaNord) that pretended to fight to get independence of the northern Italy, with an hate rhetoric directed at southern people.

Now it evolved to the #Lega which directed the #hate towards immigrants (poor ones, obviously... just poor ones..) but left any separatism and independentism behind.

Their actual selling point was: we are riches and our taxes are going to support people (and bureaucracies) who live at the south. Which technically was actually true, but even fair since, we are all Italians after all.

Our history teach that when a Nation builds a rich region hoping that it will drive up all the national economy, it will at the same time mining its own root.

The rich cannot really feel #solidarity.

____

NOTE: I don't know if it's the same with #Spain and its autonomies.

Thank you both for your perspectives.

@ekaitz_zarraga

ehm... I'm sorry...

@jump_spider

Oh... now that I read this, I realize that it's something we have since at least one century in Italy. We call them "società cooperativa".

When they are actually democratic in their inner process, they either work like a charme or collapse very rapidly.

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societ%C3%A0_cooperativa

I'm a #programmer in #strike, right now. And you can strike too!
I'm in strike to support my #Union and for #solidarity with the #workers it tries to protect: https://rassegna.it/mobile/articoli/metalmeccanici-31-ottobre-sciopero-generale

But also to show my #employer how #programmers firmly control the #MeansOfProduction: our heads.

What's really happening in #Catalonia?

It's very difficult to understand which source to trust these days, in particular with such highly political topics.

In Italy there are two main narrations of this fight for independence from #Spain: one that says Catalonia want independence because they deeply feel as a different nation/culture, and the other that says they want independence because they are much much richer than the rest of Spain and don't want to share their wealth.

The two could also be true (or false) at the same time.

Anyone can give a better perspective?

@Wolf480pl@niu.moe

I guess it did (but tbh I could not enumerate them).

Could we do better from scratch? Probably.

By reducing the scope and applicability of the protocol we could build a better one for sure. But this is the issue: the smaller the problem, the simpler (and thus better) is the solution.

@dpwiz

@dpwiz

Yet, as tools designed for specific purposes, they "withstood the tidesof times" and are.still widely used and useful.

The point is not that they are perfects but that they were designed for specific purposes.

This design decision, do one thing well, is what make them stand.

@Wolf480pl@niu.moe @technomancy

@polychrome

You might like https://miasap.se/obnc/

@kaniini

@dpwiz

#SMTP for example.
#ICMP is another.
Even #FTP still rocks (in private networks or over a VPN).

#HTTP 1.0 was pretty good to distribute #HyperTexts. Turned to shit as #WHATWG decided to transform the Web into a distributed (and highly insecure) operating system.

@Wolf480pl@niu.moe @technomancy

@jump_spider @henriquesga

If we had to declare a winner to a cultural war, it would be #US #Capitalism: no matter how many criticisms it faces, it can always embrace, marginalize and extinguish them.

And yes, most powerful corporations and agents out there want we to think #OpenSource (which is a #marketing tool, thus a #capitalist one) has won.

But if we are able to see the "cultural war" we should see how it's a never-ending one.

To me, a more appropriate wording would have been "#hackers' software", since the core value that actually drive #FreeSoftware development is #Curiosity: #freedom is fundamental, but ancillary.

#RMS couldn't see this because he was born in the #USA where (and when) the #Free #Market was the main driver of their internal narrative.

But freedom is not enough: you need #communion (#commons, #community...) so that we are bound together by mutual rules in the way we use the commons.

As the fight between #FreeMarket and #Communism has shown in the 1900, we need something else to balance these two fundamental values.

And such thing is Curiosity, the will to learn and to share knowledge so that others can learn more and teach us.

On this topics I'd have a lot more things to say. If you are interested see

http://www.tesio.it/2019/06/03/what-is-informatics.html

http://www.tesio.it/2018/10/11/math-science-and-technology.html

http://www.tesio.it/documents/HACK.txt

http://www.tesio.it/documents/vademecum.txt

@jump_spider

As for the "stigma" of the "free" world, tbh I've always thought it's just bullshit.

Recently I realized that it's just an #US and #corporate issue (because current #capitalism is itself a US thing, despite being an evolution of a way more ancient system).

Having said that, obviously to people who can't code #FreeSoftware is totally equivalent to #proprietary one except for the price.

There is no #freedom to study, modify and distribute modified versions for them.

This is something that we should fix, by teaching everybody how to #program and #debug.

_____

As for #WorkerOwnedCollectives, do you have any link to share? Sound interesting, but I know nothing about them.

@jamey

What about white dragon?

You are lucky, actually.

To me, most people are less poetic.