Shamar @Shamar@qoto.org

Finally, in 2020, #GCC 9.2.0 has been ported to #Jehanne.

Not a big achievement in the grand scheme of things, but still Jehanne is the first #Plan9 fork to run modern binutils and GCC.

http://jehanne.io/2021/01/06/gcc_on_jehanne.html

@z428

No, trust is not slavery.

But if you are not even aware of such trust or what such trust enables, if you cannot understand in any way if it's going to be used well or not, if you cannot have any sort of impact on the life of those you trust... that's slavery.

If a doctor poison you, your parents can sue him, kill him or whatever...

So your trust is backed by a form of feedback control.

If Google (or Twitter or Facebook) tune your search results (or time line or whatever) to hide certain ideas from you and your neighbours or to increase the probability a certain idea spread among your peers... you have no way to imagine that unless you have a deep understanding of how the software you use works.

Same if WhatsApp tell you it's secure. Or Signal, or...

Informatics is everywhere, just like writing.

If you HAD to resort to a free reading&writing service for ANYTHING you had to read or write, would you call it a democracy?

I guess not.

Informatics is exactly the same: it's a primitive field, just like writing was in Ancient Egypt. And it's a tool to centralize Power, just because it's primitive.

To free people, we do not need to give them easy tools for free. That's what #GAFAM pretend to do!

To free people, we need to give them SIMPLE and COMPOSABLE tools but we also need to explain them that they shouldn't let any software they do not understand deeply TO USE THEM!

Because if you do not understand a software, you are not a user, but used.

@z428

My wife is a doctor.
I helped her a lot during University, PhD and even to organize her work efficently (she follows more then 1200 patients spread on a wide territory).

So I know a bit or two about medical theory and practice.

It's a completely different matter.

Informatics is about Information.
Information is the building block of our minds.

You can delegate medicine (that has thousands years of history) without being enslaved because you do not need it for every thing you do.

You cannot delegate Informatics in the same way because you need it for every thing you do.

It's really like delegating your mind. Would you delegate your mind to people you cannot understand, reach or effectively held accountable for what they do with it?

@z428

I know what you mean, but it's really like saying they have no time to learn how to write!

Sure, part of the process is to invent an alphabet for #Informatics so that the few orthogonal and fundamental concept can be learned since primary school.

BUT I'm sure that all peasants in Ancient Egypt would have argued they had no time to learn how to write! That's why they were under a Theocracy! That's why they had no time, after all.

Informatics CAN be simple.
But by making it EASY, by hiding its fundamental complexity (that is basically the complexity of math and human logic), you teach people to depend on tools... that could (and in the long term, will) enslave them.

Hey @ondiz come va?

Fra qualche giorno parteciperò alla #AIUCD2021 per discutere questo breve saggio sulla lotta di classe degli informatici: http://www.tesio.it/documents/2021_AIUCD_La_lotta_informatica.pdf

Mi piacerebbe moltissimo sapere cosa ne pensi...

@z428

I think there's no safe way to use primitive tools (like the ones we have these days) for people who do not understand their inner working.

#BigTech lock them in chains by telling them that #Informatics can be easy and for free, but what looks easy is just a way to enslave you.

A more honest approach would be to say "Informatics is simple, but it cannot be easy until you learn it."

Like it or not, there is no way out.

Let strangers chain up you hands and necks and you will still be able to try to escape #slavery.

Let them chain up your mind, and you will never realize you are a slave.

Thanks @ekaitz_zarraga for the most valuable (and expensive!) gift I received this year! 😉

http://www.tesio.it/2020/12/25/que_es_la_informatica.html

@freemo

The problem is that I do not care about the client location, but the server's one.

In our working evample, Eve has several public IP addresses available and 3 datacenters: one in the US, one in Europe and one in China.

We know that packets for a certain IP are routed to the US datacenter but we want to to check that this statement is true even for Alice (that is in Europe) as it is for Bob (that is in the US).

As said, whatever happen inside the datacenter (say, the transfer a copy of all the data to the Chinese datacenter) is not relevant for this specific problem.

We just want to be sure that Alice's packets for say 6.6.6.6 is not routed to the datacenter in the EU or the one in China, but just the one in the US (like the Bob's ones are). They could be ICMP packets... doesn't matter for our purpose.

@khird

@freemo
Sorry for my bad explaination.
Let me try again.

By "ethernet" I meant the public internet-facing interface that first handles the packets that target a specific public IP.

In our example, this is likely a router's interface in the Eve's datacenters. I do not care about what happen inside the Eve's datacenter that receives the packet, but I need to prove that when Alice sends an level 3 packet (it could be a HTTPS over TCP or even a HTTP/3 over Quic, but I think it's not relevant to routing... is it?) to such IP address, the Eve's datacenter that receive the packet from the public Internet is the one in the US.

Now, I know that in mainsteream networking theory, an IP should only match one physical destination on earth.
So I know my question look weird (and possibly is dumb).

BUT I remember of a iranian attack, some time ago, that used fake BGP routes to obtain victim traffic to known US IP addresses. So I thought: what if such techniques (or similar ones I'm not aware of) were used as a sort of level 3 load balancing to reduce latency?

In this case, I'm looking for ways to ensure this is not happening.

In other terms, I'm looking for a way to exclude such IP address duplication in different zones of the planet.

Is my question more clear?
(I'm doing my best from my limited networking knowledge, maybe you can ask good questions...)

@khird

@freemo

Continent level precision is actually enough but a nation level would be better.

The issue in @khird's solution (vpn tunneling) is that it doesn't say anything about the IP location, just ensures that both Bob and Alice connect to the same location.

Instead I need to ensure that such IP, when connected directly from Alice, goes to the same etherney when connected from Bob.

In other terms Alice and Bob need a test that proves that the ethernet responding to such specific IP is globally unique and physically located in the US (or at least in America).

I guess the key is to exploit transoceanic TTL but... I do not know exactly how.
Maybe an altermative would be to actually dump and compare the respective BGP routes... but I do not know how.

@freemo

Still looking for solutions.

@khird has been very kind, but unfortunately what he proposed is not what I need. Which is a way to prove that a certain IP is ONLY located in a specific continent.

And as I wrote these are deep waters for my networking skills...

@khird

Well, that would probably solve the security issue of Bob and Alice but would not solve my issue that is to prove that a certain IP is ONLY going to a certain continent.

I mean, I know they could both move to an alternative architecture, but for reasons, their issue is to actually prove that such specific IP is in the states.