Elliot Porter @elliot@qoto.org

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc other way around. CP includes anything illegal, CSAM only includes abusive stuff (ideally. Some people use it wrong).

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc Ideally the government would adopt the term CSAM into existing CP laws to avoid the offensive term (and fix the laws so they focus on actual harmful content, but logic and reason is a lot to ask of politicians), but until that happens, I think the terms being different has some value. In the UK there's CSEM laws, which have similar shortcomings as the US' CP laws

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc I'd only consider something CSAM if its existence carries a high risk of harm to a real child (mainly images and videos of a child being abused). Child pornography includes everything that the government bans under relevant laws, so it can include harmless fictional content, consensual sexting between teens, and other non-abusive content.

@puppyperv I mean I'm also a prison abolitionist so we agree in that aspect. I think accountability has a use, but more in the sense of rehabilitation and supporting survivors of abuse than as a punishment

(apologies for another delete and redraft)

@puppyperv Risk precedes premeditation and rape. Again, the focus here is preventing abuse from happening, not addressing it after it happens. Risk is a useful context in prevention, not reaction.

@puppyperv "most MAPs are not at risk"

@puppyperv Assuming you meant "some" instead of "most."

I agree that rape isn't inherent to MAPness, but the fact that support for MAPs can lower risk for the few who are at risk is what connects the topic to child protection, so it's somewhat necessary to mention when I write about the topic for Prostasia.

I think it fits into your test of replacing it "MAP" with other groups. There are indeed *a few* gay people who commit rape, same with straight people, black people, cis people, and any other group you can name. It's not hateful to acknowledge this fact, and the entire field of queer criminology is centered around it (for your specific example of gay people).

I agree that rape is not an accident and that people who commit sexual violence should be held accountable, but we can do that while still taking steps to stop it from happening in the first place. That's what Prostasia's prevention approach is all about.

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc You can see an example of how I use both in one of my previous articles. As a rule, I try to only say "child pornography" where "CSAM" would be inaccurate. For example, under existing laws, someone who gets arrested for it is being arrested for "child pornography," so "CSAM" wouldn't be accurate. Using them separately is also useful for clarifying the difference between what is illegal (some countries include drawings in their definition of child pornography) vs what is actually abusive (CSAM).
https://prostasia.org/blog/non-carceral-approach-csam/

@puppyperv The word "some" is admittedly doing a lot of work in the section you quoted. As my work elsewhere reflects, I recognize that most MAPs are not at risk of offending, whether or not they receive support. That's why advocate against the prevention framing of support programs in my article - telling MAPs that they're a risk when they're not is harmful

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc It's not using the law as a baseline, just using it as a source of terminology that has a set-out definition. I use the term "child pornography" for the same reason when I'm talking about it in a legal sense, even though I know the phrase is offensive to many survivors and prefer to use the phrase "CSAM" everywhere else.

Using a term doesn't indicate agreement or disagreement with its usage elsewhere.

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc Nobody is denying that adult-on-adult sexual violence exists. However, Prostasia is a child protection organization, so they focus on violence against children.

My point is that asking us not to use phrasing that is accurate to the laws on the books doesn't make much sense when we're a public policy advocacy group. You're assigning a meaning to the language that it doesn't inherently have.

(sorry for the delete and redraft, I realized I didn't fully answer your question with my first reply)

@puppyperv @ProstasiaInc Even if we did live in a world where kids could consent, sexual violence, assault, and rape (known legally as sexual offenses) would still be a thing, and a lack of support could still lead to risk factors for them.