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@rogue_tr00per I think this also illustrates why a lot of people prefer "All Lives Matter", because as a phrase it more accurately represents the intent (the middle chart).
Most people who use All Lives Matter that I personally know (I'm not one of them, though I do use Every Life Matters) have always noted that blacks have a struggle, they just felt the best way to fix any inequality is not by addressing identity politics but by directly helping people based on suffering or unfairness rather than the color of their skin. The end result is the same that those who suffer more get more help, but it is simply a better way to arrive at the solution in their mind. In that regard at least, I agree.
@Shamar @freemo well things may be like that there(which theyre not). but your great insight into all the people of europe & how they think doesnt even come close to reality. especially if you live in UK/FRANCE/GERMANY and other nearby countries where the far right are prolific.
but somehow Italy doesnt according to you 😂
but the fact you had to write an essay to try and explain a meme (which a 6yr old would understand) shows how one sided you think 😂
have yourself a great day dude 😂
Why are you attacking me?
Anyway I was talking about structural racism, "the system" in the meme.
We have racists even here but they are not taken much seriously from the vast majority of the population.
Racism here is just an excuse to get a little bit of power over a small minority of (sadly) ignorant people by spreading believes into simple solutions to complex problem.
In Italy for example we have a party, called Lega that now collect the vote of Italian racists, but years ago the same party was called Lega Nord and instead of migrants it directed hate and fear against Italians coming from the south of the country.
So it's overly simplistic to pretend we have the same issues people have in the States.
@Shamar @freemo attacking you? are you high? where have i attacked you?
do you mean because i called your thinking one sided?
and its A MEME! its meant to be simplistic
and if you want to talk overtly simplistic ( not to mention completely wrong) how about you claiming European people saying ALM is a way of them trying to unite people for the greater cause against the oppressors! (thats comedy gold by the way 😂 )
Maybe there is a language barrier at work.
Anyway, if you say to an European that "black lives matter", there is a very high probability you will get as a response something like "sure, obviously: all lives matters!".
That's because there is no STRUCTURAL racism here, but there are other forms of structural oppression at work.
If you don't care about such other form of oppression that are more common here (and are basically due to income and wealth), fine: your problem.
I was just trying to explain a cultural mismatch that usually cause hated misunderstandings... like you see in this conversation.
@Shamar @freemo and i suggest you go and take another look at the meme & its message because people like yourself seem to have an issue with not being included in the statement BLM. even tho the whole point of this meme was to clarify that it does in fact mean ALL lives matter.
and all i can say is HERE & USA (but no where else according to you) almost everyone who responds with ALM after encountering BLM have far right/anti immigrant views.
No really: I don't care about being or not being included among the lives that matter!
My life matter for the people I love. To me that's enough. 😉
I was just trying to explain why the argument of the meme fails short in Europe.
Most of us know that dialogue with people different from us is the only way to progress. And we know that usually, those who spread hate and fear (far right, far left, whatever) do not want to see problems solved, because their power comes from such problems.
The sentences themselves evaluate to me largely the same thing.
My issue with All Lives Matter is that there is negativity associated with it partly because it was used early on as direct opposition to BLM sometimes in a negative way I want to distance myself from.
A statement like "Every Life Matters" has less of a tone of being oppositional to BLM and rather its own independent statement. Its mostly just a choice bore out of politicking :)
I agree entirely with your assessment of how we divide people by race rather than by opportunity. What people dont seem to get is that if there are racism effects causing blacks to be more poor than whites (and I agree there are) then by addressing poverty and ignoring race you would still effectually help blacks more than whites, since they would be a larger portion of the group your helping.
So the identity politics approach simply doesnt make sense even when you take all the assumptions as truth.
@freemo @Shamar you just dont get it-
The reason BLM exists is because systemic racism, police brutality and murder against the Black community show over and over again that Black lives don’t seem to matter. So, a person who says ‘All Lives Matter’ is actually proving the point that Black people continue to be a second thought in bigger issues.
@freemo @Shamar It’s even an example of racial gaslighting, a tactic used to make marginalized communities question their reality, stance on an issue or overall their ideals because it's denying something that’s true—the racism is real and it is hurting—even killing—Black people.
now i cant be bothered having to keep explaining this point over and over again.
you either like the meme, agree with it.......................or not. i dont care whether you do or not.
Not true, it is neither intended to suggest racism isnt real or that people are wrong fgor saying it is. It also isnt meant to to decry people for using BLM.. It is simply meant to give light to the bigger picture and the bigger set of problems without focusing on identity politics which is ultimately self defeating IMO. Help the poor and if the blacks are the greater victim you will natural provide them with the greatest help, its along those lines.
We already covered that. I specifically use "Every Life Matters" specifically to seperate myself from any individuals who may have used ALM in a less than savory way.
No I get all those things, and they arent in question.. All lives matter doesnt suggest blacks are a second though, it suggests that the goal is equality. As the saying goes, all lives cant matter unless black lives matter, thus why all lives matter is inclusive as a statement, at least at face value (how individuals tend to actually use it is another matter, and why I prefer Every Life Matters, to seperate myself from how people may have used ALM int he past).
@freemo
I'm not a native English speaker, so sorry if this is a dumb question, but what's the difference between "every life matters" and "all lifes matter"? I mean I don't get why one could prefer one sentence to the other.
I think that one of the core issue of this phenomenon is that most of Americans (whatever their race) have no cue about how big and varied is the word.
Structural racism in 2020 is an USA issue. To European people, saying that "alm" or "elm" is a way to point to the our own inequality issues, that are not linked to race but to income. Here it's quite evident that dividing the poors into black, white and so on, is just helping the rich to further oppress them.
So when Europeans say that all lifes matter, they mean: oppressed do not divide among yourselves, but unite and fight together the oppressors!
@rogue_tr00per