woah! octodon.social blocks fosstodon.org? (and blob.cat apparently)

That's kind of depressing, that was the first mastodon instance I joined.

@swiley Its pretty absurd the levels blocking has gotten. Usually its done under threat as many people demand you block a laundry list of instances lest be blocked.. it snowballs quick where instances wind up blocking instances just not to get blocked by what few instances can still see them. Its why we are so resistance to going down that very slippery slope here.

@freemo @swiley Just how much of Fediverse is comprised of instances that are block-happy? I can't figure out if it's a scattering of small servers or if it's a larger proportion of the userbase.

@mathlover

It seems to be a pretty big portion, and sadly there are very few instances that have local moderation rules and a polite environment but themselves are not block happy. Its so rare in fact that its been the main attractive feature QOTO presents to new users in my expiernce.

@swiley

@freemo
> Its so rare in fact that its been the main attractive feature QOTO presents to new users in my expiernce.

it was one of the main reasons i've joined here. i have some years ago created an account at another server but never used it really.

when deciding to really invest some time into the fediverse, i looked at their block list, half of the blocks were because of "free speech". unsurprisingly, unsavory posts about right-wing people or the police were no problem on that instance. while any instance is free to block whomever they want to, it's a shame that so many people fall for the doublethink.

i get why people want a "safe haven" where they don't have to deal with ugly real life shit. a closed web forum might be better than a federated microblogging protocol for that though.

@mathlover @swiley

@bonifartius I am happy that you've found a home at QOTO. I think that there are always interesting perspectives there. But the only way to think that blocking "free speech" (and I'm reading that as racist/misogynist/homophobic) and allowing critiques of Nazis and police is doublethink is if you think silencing oppressors and oppressed is the same thing. And if so, that's a pretty sad and myopic world view.

@freemo @mathlover @swiley

@pants @bonifartius @freemo @mathlover Most people would prefer *stopping* oppressors to silencing them.
Kicking a Nazi off twitter is something you do to look good.

@swiley
Agreed. Nazis exult in being martyrs. They actively seek it in fact. Kicking them off a platform and making a spectacle of doing so gives them an ego boost and pushes them to places that they can't be removed from.
@pants @bonifartius @freemo

@mathlover But I think it also helps dismantle the idea of the 'alt-right' as something mainstream. It won't sway the hardcore racists, but if you've just got a toe in the water and then have to go to a Nazi-only site to continue, it might make you reflect a moment. @swiley @bonifartius @freemo

@pants

The real consequence is it makes people think the idea, and the nazis are themselves oppressed and that maybe there is something to it if people are going to so much trouble to oppress it. Afterall, if it were just some nonsense idea with no truth to it then there would be no fear of the information being available..

We always see the same pattern when we analyze censorship.. censoring the thing usually increases support and interest in the thing.

@mathlover @swiley @bonifartius

@freemo But they're the ones framing it as censorship and we're letting them! Most folks don't think people with mental health issues are being censored when they're asked to leave a restaurant for ranting loudly about their delusions.
@mathlover @swiley @bonifartius

@pants
There's a difference between a restaurant asking a mentally ill person to leave and asking restaurants to remove people you think are mentally ill, especially if you are not a psychiatrist. The latter is closer to what we were talking about. Freemo removing an asshat from Qoto is different from if Freemo asked other server admind to remove said person under threat of block.
@freemo @swiley @bonifartius

@mathlover

Agreed, and to be clear when I say we shouldnt censor people (including nazis).. what I mean is, if one of our users wants to go read what some piece of shit nazi is posting for some reason (could be research for a paper, could be a personal motive to understand how a person can turn into someone like that, whatever), they have that right.. it doesnt mean I have to give that user the resources of my server and a seat at the table to use my server as a soapbox either.. I am talking about censorship in terms of a good persons right to be able to consume any information they wish, not that they have a right to use my private resources to broadcast shitty unethical information.

@pants @swiley @bonifartius