@swiley No, he was too busy making fun of people with disabilities to the nation. If you think either of these people deserved to be anywhere in the government at all you've already failed to solve the problem.

@freemo I'd take being mocked any day over this and if you don't see why that makes sense you're an idiot.

@swiley Luckily you never had one choice or the other thats like saying "Sure he is a murderer, but id take that over vov who is a murderer and a rapist"... like ok, but you dont have to choose one evil person because you prefer he sort of evil over another evil person. There are **lots** of people to choose from.

If you cant see why your argument is absurd then you are an idiot.

@freemo Yeah that's because you don't live here.
Last year we did have a choice and everyone picked the guy who's forcing drugs on us.

@swiley Of course they picked the wrong guy. I just said Biden was the wrong guy... Trump was just as bad.. again you didnt have the choice of one or the other.

@freemo We literally did have the choice of one over the other.
And the worst thing you've said about Trump so far is that he says mean things.

@swiley Wow you mean to tell me you literally thing Trump, in and of himself, was a good president? I mean there are plenty of other things than being an asshole to disabled people, but if your going to defend that like it is barely an issue then, well we said, that would make you an idiot. (reminder you were the one who though it appropriate to use personal insults in this conversation, which says a lot about you)

@freemo Yeah he actually wasn't bad.
I hated the way he acted, that was awful and I won't defend it but he's the best we've had in quite a while.
>reminder you were the one who though it appropriate to use personal insults
You started this conversation with a personal insult, scroll up.

@swiley The sexual fetish comment? No thats not a personal insult, no one in their right mind would think I **actually** thought you had a personal fetish. you said "fuck joe biden" since fuck means "to have sex with" it was a joke and play on words, not the same as a personal insult.

@swiley as for other reasons to hate trump well there are the obvious surface reasons:

He demonstrated the intelligence of a small toddler

He was rude and even cruel to people without cause

His ego was very delicate and would have tantrums if anyone talked bad about him

etc.

But then there are more concerete reasons:

He engaged in masive QE which caused the highest inflation on record and, as QE does, we continue to see this massive inflation playing out today.

He rolled back tons of enviromental protections in a world that is barely scrapping by when it comes to keeping nature alive

and quite a few other things we could get into there as well.

There are more than enough reasons to rule out Trump as being even remotely competent.

@freemo
>QE
Do you think anyone would have done something else in 2020? I didn't like it either but I don't know what else you would expect
>He rolled back tons of enviromental protections in a world that is barely scrapping by when it comes to keeping nature alive
Our emissions fell while he was president.
The rest of your complaints are "he was rude and dumb."

@swiley No one in the history of the US has done the specific type of QE, or the quantity of QE Trump has done. In fact only one other president engaged in QE before, that was Obama, and it was of an entierly different nature and not really comparable (though arguably not great)..

So no, others would not have done what Trump did in regards to QE.

Funny though how your whole argument is basically "other people suck too" not much of an argument.

Secondly your argument about emissions is completely false. Attached is the chart of pm2.5 (fossil fuel metric)emissions normalized for the day Trump was elected... Does that look like emissions went down during his election to you?

In fact even if we try to find the few metrics that might cherry-pick its way for you seeming right you will find that while emissions may have decreased in some special cases the rate of decrease significantly slowed or even leveled off compared to the rate it was falling before he took office.

@freemo Your chart ends in 2018. Trump was president until the beginning of 2021.

@swiley Feel free to show us that chart of 2021 pm2.5 that you seem to think raised then... ill wait.

@swiley

@freemo You're welcome to keep waiting.
I'll burn the forests down over what the current president is doing.

@swiley What is it with you and your false equivelance fallacies. I never once stated Biden is doing a good job or that you shouldnt be outraged at his choices... yet that is continually asserted in your bad-faith defenses.

You say shit that is completely a lie, then argue about it, and then complain that the data other people use to disprove you isnt good enough, meanwhile you have no data of any kind to suggest what you said is true.

Its lazy and makes you look very bad. Any intention to actually discredit Biden or his choices are overshadowed by the fact that you just discredit yourself in the very process. As someone who against Biden myself I certainly dont appreciate you hindering efforts and making people who are against Biden look bad, and thus weaking out own more valid arguments against him.

@freemo @swiley

I think swiley is just a little radicalized by the sad state of our world. This state can exist on all sides of the political spectrum with one commonality, politically the world is kinda fucked.

Freemo is not wrong in this, even if an idea seems good cause it enables your point of view doesn't make it right.

I also agree with swiley on many points.

Biden is terrible, vaccine mandates are egregious.

beware confirmation bias leading you with hope to misinformation. We are all guilty of this from time to time it takes a greater person to realize and accept truth.

@twotwenty

Very well said, I agree with everything you said.

The thing is swiley's stated goals/concerns (the hate of biden and vaccine mandates) are ones I share. I do understand why it has driven him to an emotional, and thus wreckless, response. But I do agree with what he is mad at.

I just dont like seeing anyone being self-destructive of their own goals, especially not when those goals agree with my own.

I dont dislike swiley, I dont think he is a bad person, I dont disagree with his **intent**. But I do find it counter-productive and obnoxious the way he argues for it.

Its important to also point out, this is a STEM instance first, free speech is secondary as a necessity to STEM. He has stated before he knows he is shit posting, he knows it is wrong, but is doing it out of anger at how bad things have gotten... Thats all well and good but a STEM instance is not the place to come and post anti-factual statements and sell it as true, especially when you know that is the case. Why is he on a STEM instance at all when he doesnt care about truth, where the means justify the ends and the first thing to get chucked is truthfulness/honesty.

@swiley

@twotwenty @freemo @swiley

Vaccines mandates make sense. It is like using car belt mandates, or stopping on red lights mandates.

* Believing is not required
* You do it or you get what you deserve.
* Everybody must do it because it adds to the common good.

After 2 years of pandemic, it is pointless to try to convince people that believe the true is opinable.

Just get vaccinated. If you want to understand why, google it.

I am tired of living in a world where the most idiotical opinions are considered up to the same level of scientific facts...