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@stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com @MelodyCooper
And when someone staps someone or beats them with a bat do we cry about how bats are legal... Yes there is a problem, but absurd solutions like making guns illegal is obviously not the answer.
What an ignorant and uninformed way to view the problem.
It sounds pretty much equivalent to saying things like:
"Oh why oh why are cars still legal when kids are dying in car accidents"
Or even worse yet: "If we made vaccines illegal people would stop dying of vaccines.
The reason is because these viewpoints are ignorant of the big picture. Guns save lives, and prevent incidents from happening, they also cause incidents. Any real argument looks at all of that at frames the issue as one of violence first and foremost.
No we arent "oh but we like our toys".. no its more like "Well these tools help us prevent deaths too, so we wont give them up over a poorly framed emotional argument.
@stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com
@freemo @stormy178 Cars and drivers are regulated more than guns and gun owners are. While that truth sinks in (we’ll wait), in a diagram, here’s another emotional argument you won’t win. Keep trying though if it makes you feel better about suicides and 160 mass shootings to date in 2023. Good luck and Good night.
Nice goal post moving you did there.
Personally I beleive in bodily autonomy.. the same reason I support abortion is the reason I support access to suicide methods.
So guns being a route for suicide is not just ok, it is prefered.
@stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com
>Be in a world where cars are regulated like guns
>Pickup trucks banned
>minivans banned
>Anything bigger than a yugo is strictly for military use
>Background checks for every dealership visit
>separate licenses for buying and operating vehicles
>automatic transmission banned
>Need to life saving travel in Europe you're already dead
>ATF agents ran over your wife and dog because what are yoy gonna do about it
I have decided you should livestream yourself gargling bleach to increase the world's IQ
Doc (WBF :idunno: Edition) :cat_stare_activated:
Those same illegals get firearms too and cause crimes with them in the USA and also send them back across the border so the cartels can use them in violent crime.
mexicans also make straw purchases for the cartels and send the guns back to mexico where they are used to victimize BLACK BODIES in this specific case.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/20/americas/mexico-matamoros-us-citizens-kidnapping-gun-charge/index.html
"In 2019, more than 10,000 people were killed in alcohol‐impaired‐driving accidents, meaning that drunk driving was responsible for almost 28 percent of all traffic deaths."
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/firearms/firearm-deaths/
In 2019 there were 14,414 gun deaths that were homicides so gun deaths are slightly worse than drunk driving deaths. Gun deaths that are suicide do NOT count because suicidal people will always find a way to kill themselves.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/02/23/young-black-men-teens-made-up-more-than-third-2019-gun-homicides/4559929001/
https://moguldom.com/338709/homicides-against-black-americans-increased-by-1000-deaths-in-2020/
We all know that these increase aren't due to Whites murdering Blacks. I sympathize with you because you seem to care about your people and are trying to fix a problem but you are "armed" with incorrect data and are placing blame upon the wrong things.
If you want to get to the root of the problem then start looking at WHO moved all the jobs out of our communities and WHO made gangster rap so popular. Those same people are also responsible for allowing illegal immigration which disproportionately affects lower and middle class Blacks more than it does Whites and it had been pretty damn bad for Whites.
The same people responsible for the state of modern Black America are the same people responsible for the decline in ALL of America.
I feel bad for Black people because jews stole them from their homeland and forced them into slavery all across the Americas and the island countries near there during the Atlantic slave trade and I support reparations of at least $100,000 each for those who choose to return to Africa but the people who would be financially responsible for paying would be mostly jewish along with a very small group of elite European families who have connections to those jews and have built their generational wealth off of exploiting Blacks and working class Whites.
I admire your love of your people and would like to help you because it would benefit all of us if the true perpetrators of the slave trade and the cause of the increase in Black on Black and Black on White violence were made known to the public.
What do you think about the anti-BDS laws that so many states have been passing? It's weird how White people are supposed to have so much power and yet we don't have any laws that prevent people from making honest criticisms against us, not that there is as much criticism to be made against Whites as there are jews.
You ever look into the REAL history behind "blood diamonds?"
The DeBeers diamond mining company is jewish, along with nearly all other diamond companies and most all of the companies exploiting the resources in Africa and stealing from the Africans. How will Africa ever become a decent country if jews and the chinese who have deep connections to jews are allowed to steal the resources which rightfully belong to Africans?
I hope you don't block me because I'd like to have a civil conversation with you and learn more about what you think and why you think. Like I've said before, I think you have good intentions and want the best for your people and I want the same for mine so we have at least that in common.
If we look for the things we have in common first instead of the things that are different and divide us we can accomplish so much more. We will never completely agree with each other on everything but we should work together on the things we do agree on at least and I think you would be surprised at how much we have in common once you learn the truth about things.
@freemo @MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com So guns don't kill people but they save lives? How nice of them.
@freemo @MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com Someone has to be this person so I'll proceed. Firearms are really cool and very dense in Physics and Engineering. With the War on X mentality, education has suffered.
The CETME's history and the development of the AR-15 are absolutely insane. Ian McCollum with Forgotten Weapons has really cool videos on the subjects.
It really says something when my interest in Electrochemistry was sparked by Uncle Fester. Fast forward to me using that information to protect structures from corrosion. It was 4 or 5 graduate level texts later but it still sparked that thirst for knowledge and eventual application.
Give kids every chance to stand in pure awe of something. One moment for me was seeing a real SR-71 in person. I couldn't touch it but still I got moved along by guards because I was paying too much attention. It was being serviced and I was able to see a little bit of the turbines. Not even porn has been that interesting. A crude example but it was that amazing. I can still visualize that section rather vividly approximately 24 years later.
Tons of physjcs stuff out there that leverages guns. Yes they serve many purposes beyond killing
@MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com
@freemo @MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com The Mini 14 was a good lesson in why harmonics are important. The M4 was useful in learning why a 14.5in barrel using a round developed for a 16 to 20in barrel is not that good. Yep it took until 1996 to be formally introduced because of problems. Now it's being replaced with a battle rifle that weighs around 13.5lbs.
Ignore the Engineers and Designers. It's like NASA with O-rings. Communism doesn't stop for cold weather. We need another victory lap.
@AmpBenzScientist @freemo @MelodyCooper @stormy178 and in Vietnam they learned the hard way, going for velocity at the expense of all else doesn't work too well. That's how the early M16 got a bad rep.
@mike805 @freemo @MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com Well the Gobment made the action button, changed the stick powder to something else, no cleaning kits were issued, for some reason they didn't have chrome lined barrels and add in around 800 rounds per minute of barely any recoil fed in 20 round magazines. It's empty after around 1.5 seconds.
The original round was very effective and it was classified as to why it was effective. The round was prone to fragmentation around 3000fps. So that's one reason that round was phased out and a different twist was used.
Add in the fact that the AK-47s were actually Chinese Type 56 rifles and the North Korean version. Both had milled receivers and weren't the garbage Soviet AKM. If you look at US GIs holding a captured AK rifle, there's likely a lightening cut above the magazine well. That's the Type 56.
With all that being said, it worked great for the USAF and special forces units. The fragmentation issue was deemed a metallurgical problem.
It's a wonder it survived.
@freemo @AmpBenzScientist @MelodyCooper @stormy178 Just about all tech is descended from weapons! The two basic human technologies are fire and sharp objects; everything else comes from those two.
More specifically, engines are descended from cannon. Newcomen was having no success with his steam power experiments until he hired a cannon maker to produce the cylinders. Then he finally had a good enough seal to make his engine work.
@mike805 @freemo @MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com Diesel Engines and the fire piston. The Wankel and Mazda. Steam boilers exploding and the Sterling Engine.
@MelodyCooper @freemo @stormy178
"Think about kids!" is the cheapest and most popular argument when you don't have real arguments.
I'm really tired of reminding that this argument is exactly what was used to allow censorship, deprive LGBT people of their right and other such things in Russia.
So now we have no independent social media accessible for most of the people and new law forbidding "forming a distorted view of equality between non-traditional and traditional relationships".
Children are safe now 👍
Im all for thinking about the kids, and after considering their safety as a top most priority i decided keeping guns legal was in their best interest
@MelodyCooper @stormy178@mastodon.stormy178.com
@Kang_Kong2 @stormy178 @MelodyCooper @freemo
And of course you have a lot of proven cause and effect relation arguments besides some post hoc ergo propter hoc statements?
@MelodyCooper @freemo @stormy178 We don't need to ask what Jesus would do, it's in the Bible; He told the disciples to carry swords, but opposed unnecessary violence (rebuking Peter for cutting off the ear of a Roman guard).
This doesn't really read like the philosophy of someone who would support sword control.
https://wheelchairsagainstguns.org/13-year-old-chicago-kids-encouraged-brandish-gun-adult-gang-member/
https://youtu.be/AuZzyon0TAE
Luke 22:36 "And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one."
Matt. 10:24 "Do not think I came to bring peace on the earth; I came not to bring peace but a sword."
It's a mystery...
But it's a moot point since, you don't really care what Christ believed in the first place. A better question to ask is why we have more school shootings now when there are background checks, gun restricted areas, and a myriad of gun restrictions, than we did without those restrictions, back when you could buy a gun from a magazine ad. And why despite being illegal to purchase or own, felons with a history of violent crime (often currently on bail/bond or parole for said violent crimes) still manage to acquire and use firearms for more crimes.
I had to look for 5 minutes to find the article with pictures of the murderers again. Why do you think that all the newer articles at the top of the search show White people mourning and White police?
No way they did that on purpose right?
By the way, todays equivalent of the money changers would NOT be the NRA. It would be the banks and the ADL which are ran by the same people who ran the Atlantic slave trade and are now trying to enslave the whole world.
White people are on edge because Black crime is becoming worse but I guarantee you it is safer for a Black to walk through the biggest KKK town at night than it is for White people to walk through Compton or the bad part of Chicago any time of the day.
If you want someone to legitimately blame then go read Farrakhan's book about the history of jews and Blacks instead of blaming the people who have been funding welfare programs for the last nearly one hundred years.
You don't know Christ, faggot.
@freemo @MelodyCooper I don't know if they're the answer, but taking guns away from people results in fewer gun deaths. Yes, there will still be bat deaths and hammer deaths and what have you, and we can generalise that as blunt force objects. You can't get rid of blunt force objects. Getting rid of 99% of guns is trivial in comparison.
And why are you ignoring, conviently, the bat deaths and knife deaths and assault deaths prevented by the good guy with the gun?
Thats why the whole "Make guns elligal and gun deaths will go down" is the intellectual equivelant of thr antivaxxer " Make vaccines illegal and we can eliminate vaccine deaths". It may techbicallt be true but its intellectually dishonest because it fails to look at the big picture.
**Exactly** now your getting it. Fewer gun deaths doesnt mean fewer deaths overall (and in fact can mean **more** dewths). And thus thr problem with using gun deaths as a metric or goal.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper Fewer gun deaths usually also means fewer deaths in general. It doesn't have to, but it does.
Obviously higher birth rate also causes more deaths :) But having a gun allows for more opportunities to intimidate and hurt people with it, opportunities that are often not available to people who's best available weapon is a kitchen knife.
It also allows for some opportunities that aren't really possible with blunt force objects and blades, such as deadly accidents and mass killings. There's very few multiple death stabbings and almost no baseball bat suicides.
And I have yet to hear a good argument for risks related to harder access to guns that isn't based on there being very easy access to guns.
Poland has 40 million people and the number of mass shootings that can be counted on one hand within the living history. The same is true for the great majority of countries. US is a special case for many reasons - lack of social safety net is a big factor in violence in general, so is the mass incarceration - but you could only makes things better if you make sure a crazy person can't easily purchase an automatic rifle.
The data suggests otherwise from what ive seen. But if ghats the case you want to make then make it. Dont provid unrelated data that doesnt say that.
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper US has an incredibly high murder rate for its level of income. Source is mentioned.
Yes, yes it does... not particularly relevant (unless you have more to add), but it surely does
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo I know Switzerland is a favourite example, the second one being Canada, but maybe actually read up on Switzerland before you do it. Certainly not a "get an AR at the grocery store" kind of country.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo What you gave is the only example you can think of. There are no other countries like that. There are a few where hunting is popular and that makes of a significant number of guns that don't generally cause the murder rate to skyrocket. The rest has restrictive gun laws and high murder rates or a lot of guns and murders.
Why did you choose Switzerland in particular? Is it its similarity to the US? Do you think US should be required to have a purchase licence for any modern firearm!? Should there be a puchase licence requirement for ammo? What are you trying to say, exactly?
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo ok, too many typos and no edit functionality on my app or server :) But I think you get my point. I give a list of twenty countries where restrictive gun laws work. You only look at the one where there relatively lax - still much stricter than in the US, mind you. You're not looking for evidence.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo Yeah, I'm sure you'd bet your life on it. Or, you know, everyone's.
Again you dont use corelation if your doing honest science on this or any topic like it...
@freemo @zack @MelodyCooper None of us here are doing any science. And lack of control over sales and ownership of firearms is certainly not the only problem that contributes an abnormally high murder rate in the US.
But your insistence that the fact that anyone can buy an automatic weapon in your country has no bearing on murder rate being extremely high indicates to me that you don't really want to learn. You just want to preach.
And that's fine.
Obviously what zack said. The sale of new auto weapons have been illegal in the usa for a very long time. You can only get access to very old antique autoweapons and there are very few of them at all.
It does discredit you when you say stuff like that.
@zack @MelodyCooper @freemo And yet, US has hundreds of mass shootings a year, and France decidedly does not, go figure.
No one said impossible. You can buy automatic weapons. But again only very rare antique weapons and at an enourmous price. It is also so rare that you cant find a single modern shooting with an automatic.
You approach to analysis (correlation) is already invalid. So everything that comes from that is likewise invalid
@freemo @stormy178 With children being shot, sir, you should be replying that guns should be more regulated. Demand BETTER RESTRICTIONS and background checks. Your knee jerk reaction “Don’t ya take my guns” is a sad and tired old record. It shows lack of compassion and refusal to see the crisis that we are truly in right now. For those of you who are Christian, I always wonder WWJD? If he angrily threw out the money changers imagine what he would do to the NRA.