@khird link plz?

@kreyren http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8106 is an Open Source Definition author's statement on the controversy.

It appears I slightly misremembered the details - the ban actually targetted companies who did business with border services in a sort of second-order boycott, not the government itself.

@khird i see, i do not support such blocking, i am only concerned about software that can be used in a major war and war crimes.

@zpartacoos See https://qoto.org/web/statuses/107933308829554020

@kreyren I hope this is meant to be parody. You can't possibly be suggesting the punishment of an entire nation (even on matters unrelated to the conflict) at such a fundamental level as blocking IPs because of the actions of a demented leader.

For now, I'll assume that you're a legit/real human being who isn't just taking the piss. If this is the case, then consider the ramifications of making average citizens suffer due to these unofficial sanctions. I can provide from firsthand that in 2014 (soon after American sanctions) in Venezuela we had it really tough as we couldn't buy basic shit like medicine as international companies bolted from the country similar to what they are doing to Russia atm. Now, if you're a rich government official you can still easily get everything you need by doing your shopping at a neighboring country. So the only person that suffers are those not even involved in the conflict. Thus, this reactionary tactic can make you feel like progress is being done but it is not a sane strategy for actually inflicting pain on the enemy (Putin and his loonies).

@zpartacoos My proposal is the restriction of all and/or majority of open-source and free software to russia for the duration of the conflict + possibly few weeks as we can't make more efficient mitigation to ensure that our software is not used to commit war crimes

Russia basically depends on free software for it's economy so the denial of it would support the effect of sanctions by the countries of the world + hopefully disrupted their coordination of troops.

In terms of suffering russia is the aggressor in this war the suffering of citizens in russia is inevitable

> So the only person that suffers are those not even involved in the conflict.

Russian citizens are very involved and play a major role in this conflict as:
1. produce of their work is directly linked to the funding and competence of russian military and government
2. They form the approval rating of putin that enables him to stay in power
3. are in position to spread propaganda

@kreyren bro what world do you live in??? Pls tell me this is parody

>> My proposal is the restriction of all and/or majority of open-source and free software to russia for the duration of the conflict

This literally can't be enforced specially given the repo mirrors all over the place + VPNs. Also, you'd have to somehow get every foss maintainers to block all Russian IPs across all git servers which is simply not feasible (some maintainers won't do it for not having the time, not agreeing with it in principle, not being aware of the situation, etc).

>> hopefully disrupted their coordination of troops.

So, you're willing to go to extreme measure as this on a "hopefully". Gotcha.

>> the suffering of citizens in russia is inevitable

Yes! Exactly! but my point is that these measures don't actually hurt the government or military of Russia! They can find ways around these things so you only hurt REGULAR ASS PEOPLE

>> Russian citizens are very involved and play a ...

Really? - I mean, obviously some do. For example those in the military or the ones working for the government in some capacity. However, military conscription is mandatory for at least two years (iirc) so even then I don't think it's fair to say that its their choice. Nonetheless, would you blame involvement to an entire nation due to the actions of their demented leader? It ain't exactly a democracy over there :) In fact, this move by Putin has been widely unpopular.

>> 1. produce of their work is directly linked to the funding and competence of russian military and government

But again, this isn't exactly optional. Its something you basically inherent by birthplace (who you pay taxes to). And regarding the competence of Russian military or government I again bring up the point that conscription is mandatory and its an authoritian government that doesn't give you a choice into what military endeavor they decide to jump into.

>> 2. They form the approval rating of putin that enables him to stay in power

Nope nope nope. You are I'll informed. Russia is the furthest shit from a democracy and Putin has a very low approval despite any approval rating you may acquire online or on any official poll which is certain to be doctored. I suppose this is a point hard to explain to people from non-authoritarian countries but basically don't trust any sources portraying the government in a positive light. To try to explain, I give you an example from my country, we had a TV channel called GloboVision which used to occasionally paint the government in negative light by showcasing their incompetence in maintaining infrastructure and surprise surprise they got hit with some mayor fines and their management got magically changed to progovernment people and the old hosts lost their jobs, some even facing criminal charges. So, in our types of countries, you simply are not allowed to criticize the government in any way unless you're willing to lose your job, access to food/welfare, and often even face jailtime.

>> 3. are in position to spread propaganda

But you could say the same about any human being ;)

Again russian military and economy depends on linux, so the more we disrupt this the better.

And yes this measurements are and will hurt regular russians where there is no other way around that.

> Nonetheless, would you blame involvement to an entire nation due to the actions of their demented leader? It ain't exactly a democracy over there :) In fact, this move by Putin has been widely unpopular.

That's how it works in democracy, in autocracy it just requires more unified action to get the same result if the leader does not respesent you with putin being very vulnerable to mass unrest and protests atm that could stop the war.

> But again, this isn't exactly optional. Its something you basically inherent by birthplace (who you pay taxes to).

yes, but again that is why sanctions on regular russians are important, because they are playing a major role in this war that can't be ignored even when they are not in position to do much about it.

> You are I'll informed. Russia is the furthest shit from a democracy and Putin has a very low approval despite any approval rating you may acquire online or on any official poll which is certain to be doctored.

There are approval ratings that are said to be independent that are closer to the real representation https://www.statista.com/statistics/896181/putin-approval-rating-russia

With majority of russians being brainwashed and believing the propaganda[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP12RsF2YZ0]

> But you could say the same about any human being ;)

There are regular russians that support putin and are intentionally spreading propaganda or are paid to spread it. That is different from shitposting

@zpartacoos and like if you have a better idea then i am listening

@kreyren unfortunately, I don't have a better idea (easier to criticize than to come up with one). I just think this is a slippery slope and potentially lead to innocent people footing the bill for something psychopaths are doing. I will continue thinking about it for now. Only thing I can think so far would be large scale highly targeted cyber attacks on Russian military infrastructure which the west could plausibly deny by claiming "we didn't do it".

@zpartacoos Anonymous are doing that atm, it helps my feeling of guilt, but i don't feel like it's enough

@zpartacoos Not to say that i blame russian citizens for this war.

I highlight that it's important to recognize the indirect involvement and implications