@AlanOutback
It absolutely is the same. Not a military man are you? Critical infrastructure is dual-use and is always a military target, regardless of country.
@marathon0
yes dual use infrastructure is always military target. Eg railway lines and roads will have been targeted by everyone. But in doing so you can aim to maximize or minimize civilian harm.
Targetting infrastructure, blitz like, for the purpose of causing hypothermia in civilians, isn't quite the same as what NATO did.
and I dont have to be any kind of military man to know that, just a moral one.
@AlanOutback
War is War. Ukraine shelled civilians in the Donbass and the LPR since 2014, and didn’t implement either 1 or 2 of the Minsk Peace Accords. Are you aware of this? If not then you aren’t in any moral position to judge the Russians or the Donbass militias who are defending themselves.
@AlanOutback
Oh you believe that NATO does only surgical strikes, yeah right. Don’t forget they bombed the Chinese embassy, by accident, supposedly.
blah blah / contention
@marathon0
I am pretty sure saying that I ‘believe’ things I did not say. (never said only, never said surgical)
Is not really discussing the topic with me.
I could discuss a topic, but I am not here to swat back that kind stuff.
@marathon0 why would you promote the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure ? you wish harm on these people
@tonic
Actually no - but you don’t seem to have knowledge that the Ukrainians themselves shelled civilians in the Donbass right up to the SMO and still are. That is a war crime. Been happening since 2016! Where were you then?
I for one don’t acknowledge anything you say as knowledgeable regarding Russia. It’s clear to me that you hate Russians. You’re brainwashed.
I’ll listen to the experts on this and that isn’t the NYT which is a mouthpiece for US Intelligence and the State Department.
People like former UN Weapon’s Inspector Scott Ritter and retired US Army Colonel McGregor, or the former head of the CIAs Russia Desk all disagree with your claims. Also the writings of Eva Barrett the Canadian journalist who has exposed many of the western media propaganda lies about Ukraine, lies that good people like you, seem to believe.
The Donbass was about to be invaded by the Ukrainian Army, it just happened that Putin found out and launched the SMO before it could happen. He’s defending Russian speaking people from Ukrainian Nationalist genocide FFS!!
Are you also aware that you’re supporting extreme fascism? The nationalists are Nazis! Well documented and an inconvenient truth.
History, is important in this context and one shouldn’t argue Geopolitics unless one knows it well!
@marathon0 this bizarre tirade where police state propaganda is regurgitated in bad faith is unconvincing as an argument to justify your support for Ukrainian genocide and frankly itโs unbecoming of any serious person
@tonic So you’re gobsmacked and can’t refute any of the facts. I’m serious when it comes to geopolitics and do have much experience in that realm. You’re very ignorant of the facts. Wether this is intentional or not, shrug. 
Hopefully you’re as outraged with the wanton killing of Palestinians by Israeli police and settlers! It’s an apartheid state!
@marathon0 yes this kind of response is typical of these bizarre trolls your fake outrage does nothing to convince me of your sound judgement and these flippant posts neither
@tonic
Anybody you disagree with is a troll… gotcha!
๐ณ๐ฑ
I havent read the thread yet.. but lets deescalate on both sides please.. namecalling isnt a good way to end a disagreement, whether your right or wrong… I am not refering or blaming either, I havent read.. i just see both of your last two replies were very antagonistic, it probably could have been done without it and best you both walked away.
@freemo @marathon0 well read it first then ๐
Sorry I will, second i have an eye ball free.
Just saying one of the central features of QOTO is respectful discourse or walking away... there are a lot of people out there with some pretty questionable views.. some might violate our ToS, others are just plain stupid (which I'd personally categorize as anything pro-russia). Even when someone is being an idiot the general advice is be polite or disengage.. if they continue when you disengage, report it.
My point is no matter who is wrong, I dont want to ever see QOTO members resorting to name calling, least of all with eachother... we are better than that. I say this without pointing blame in this conversation.
For the record I read it and marathon's stance is idiotic to say the least...
That said I think its still prudent we all walk away since there is nothing more constructive to be had here.
Don't read.
No sorry to be clear I dont think you are an idiot… I think your stance is idiotic.. there is a difference… Smart people do ideotic things all the time.
It is ok to attack an idea, just not so much a person. I dont mind you as a person, I dont think your a moron.. but I do feel this is one of the dumber things you uttered. Hey no one is perfect.
Don't read.
@freemo It is based on facts that aren’t readily available in the west because of the massive propaganda campaign. Surely your realize this? Anyway enough said, I won’t respond anymore to this thread. Thanks for understanding. Cheers.
Don't read.
@freemoโค๏ธ
we've always been at war with eurasia
oceania has never been at war with yugoslavia
so oceania couldn't have done it against yugoslavia
but if oceania had done it, it would have been good
it's one of those words that expresses praise when referring to a party member, and criticism when referring to an enemy
every goodthinking person knows that
@marathon0
Pretty sure not even when accurate is the argument: someone else did bad thing is not an argument, that it (bombing Ukranian power plants) is not bad thing.
Westerners would also need to get that in proportion by reading about it, say here
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/balkans/stories/belgrade052599.htm
"Allied officials said the attacks were intended to disrupt operations by the Serb-led Yugoslav military in Kosovo, the focus of the conflict, and not target civilians. But by increasing the hardship of ordinary citizens, alliance leaders also appeared to be seeking to encourage public disaffection with the government of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic."
Which is not really quite the same as whats happening in Ukraine. AKA some level false equivalence.
But yes wars are rarely pretty.