@trinsec That’s really useful, thanks — I’ve tried a lot of them but there’s some there I haven’t. And yeah, I think it’s absurd that an operating system can come without such basic functionality; just bizarre

@bonifartius well yeah, I think it’s on the operating system to provide at least a very basic editor, which Apple just doesn’t do. After that there’s room for discussion about whether I need additional functionality that’s worth paying for, and whether there’s space for developers to innovate in new ways, but I don’t think it’s unfair to feel entitled to not need to pay for functionality comparable to Ed

@rlamacraft then the whole thing is likely apples fault instead that of the editor devs, who have to pay apple store extortion money :)

@bonifartius oh absolutely — the fact that you have to pay Apple to even distribute free apps is problematic (the main hurdle to me trying to build my own). I don’t know whether donations often cover that annual cost? But in any case I have nothing against paid apps, just when they try to sell something isn’t new or novel or free apps that block basic functionality. I think the right way is to enhance the experience with paid for

@rlamacraft but, they build something which you seem to have found useful, so it may be fair to pay them, even if it is not innovative. one pays for a burger too even if it not haute cuisine :)

@bonifartius Software is different though — you make the thing once and it benefits infinite people and there are no material costs. Plus, it just feels like the functionality is too fundamental to necessitate paying for. How long before we have to pay to browse files on disk? Or to assemble machine code? Like, I just want to append UTF-8 encoded characters to a block file on disk…

@rlamacraft but thats again a problem of apples ecosystem. somewhere else you'd just have vi or whatever. i guess the developer of an editor app for ios can be happy if he breaks even :/

@bonifartius you have to pay apple to write software for their platforms. throw that crap out the window, and get yourself one of these
https://www.fxtec.com/
or one of these
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-Photon-Q-4G-LTE-Use-your-own-NANO-Sim-card/174543373000?epid=118366470&hash=item28a39882c8:g:x84AAOSwRkNfyD36
@rlamacraft

@namark i don't have an apple device :)

@bonifartius uhm... still got to have some other crap lying around...

@namark if i don't need more of one thing, it's mobile phones i don't use :)

@bonifartius throw you stuff out the window regardless :V

@namark @bonifartius @rlamacraft or a Pinephone, or Librem 5

@Hyolobrika @bonifartius @rlamacraft well, if you are a touchscreen peasant, I guess...

@namark well, i have other devices with a keyboard to do serious stuff with ;)

@bonifartius you said you don't want a phone at all, make up your mind :V

@namark not an _additional_ phone for the collection :)

@bonifartius freakin cross-thread riddler >:(

@namark sorries 😽

@Hyolobrika @bonifartius
you guys should just say "pinephone more affordable and more open and stuff" and I'll be defeated.

@rlamacraft

@bonifartius @rlamacraft

Interesting:

1. 1990s: FOSS rises with Linux (replacing 1980s shareware and freeware)
2. 2000s: they want to get you using SaaS and apps that they control
3. 2020s: we have no control over our machines

Everybody wants to rule the world.

@amerika @rlamacraft i'm getting a bit off-topic here, but:

the best thing is that this appification
enables continuing the oldschool nerd bullying. only that the normies have poisoned gifts given to them and laughing about everyone who doesn't want them. it is considered dumb to build your own infrastructure. "you want some spare change for hosting $service? wait, it doesn't have $feature big corp. apps have? HAHA YOU ARE SO DUMB YOU RETARDED NERD!11"

i don't have that much spare money, but i am happy to spend it on things created by actual people, like locally produced food, but also for software maintainers etc.

to be honest, i want that those people who laugh at this fall flat on their faces in the worst possible way. i won't help them anymore. they have no gratitude for other peoples work and no respect for other beings. there is no excuse for that.

@amerika @rlamacraft btw. not a rant directed at you rlamacraft, just to prevent
a misunderstanding. i'm just generally pissed at the state of the world i guess ;)

@bonifartius @amerika No, I totally get where you’re coming from. I too think we have to be careful not to take the tireless effort made by FOSS contributors for granted and should help wherever we can, financially or otherwise. My main issue is with Apple: I spent nearly a grand on this device and it can’t do such basic stuff. I feel like over time computers are becoming devices only capable of white-listed functionality; we’re going back to before WW2… We peaked at UNIX pipes…?

@rlamacraft @bonifartius

I agree. Apple makes it easy to do stuff, but then breaks lots of functionality and charges high prices for it.

I escaped that cult years ago, but it wasn't easy to see.

Like most things modern: angry serfs pretending to be kings. Steve Jobs was not a happy man.

We peaked with early UNIX because those coders at least knew how to make a consistent and logical operating system and interface.

Now we have clueless syntax junkies tacking on random stuff as the OS bloats and internal interoperability crashes...

@rlamacraft @amerika modern os always find a way to fuck up while trying to hold my hand. linux without systemd, plain window manager and programs looking like it is 2000 still work the best for me. at least i can fix things if they are broken :)

@asterope I thought Apple was trying to sell their devices more as “real computers” recently? Like they have a file browser now. I honestly wouldn’t mind if the built in notes app’s data was accessible on a Mac — I could cron job up something

@rlamacraft
>have a file browser now.
Just now? That's horrible.
What I got from their actions is that they just found and executed a new way to lock-in users and take away even more control from them - arm on desktop.