@bonifartius @rotenotes

Even more, democracy gives minorities power over the majority which is then abused.

@amerika @rotenotes i really don't care who forces whom to do things just because they can.

marx was talking absolute rubbish though, and it's hard to even give him the benefit of doubt. back then the industrialization did radically improve life for the poor. it had other shit consequences, none of which are solved by socialism. which the original post does suggest, albeit veiled as democracy.

source for the image https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ehr.12964

@freemo corporate governance

[🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo

@rotenotes those few who govern are elected by all shareholders. Thats democratic much how nations ellect presidents and congressmen whonare few to run things.

"Capitalism" (really corporate governance) is as democratic as youncan get.

@freemo Consider the following from a Marxist perspective:

Economic Power and Class Interests: Marxism argues that capitalism inherently creates a division between the bourgeoisie (owners of the means of production) and the proletariat (workers). Even if shareholders elect leaders, this does not change the fundamental power dynamics. The shareholders, who typically belong to the bourgeois class, have interests that differ from those of the workers. Hence, this form of democracy is limited to those who own capital and excludes the majority who do not. [wage and non-wage income]

Limited Participation: In corporate governance, the "democratic" process is confined to shareholders, which is a small fraction of the population. Workers, who contribute their labor to create value, usually have no say in the decision-making processes of the corporation. This exclusion contradicts the Marxist idea of true democratic control, where workers collectively make decisions about production and distribution. [collective rationality]

Alternative Models of Democracy: Marxism advocates for a form of democracy where workers have direct control over production, often referred to as workers' councils or soviets. In this system, economic and political decisions are made collectively by the workers, ensuring that the interests of the majority are represented and that there is no class that dominates the others.
[classless society]

In conclusion, while corporate governance might incorporate some democratic elements for shareholders, it falls short of the comprehensive, inclusive democracy envisioned by Marxism. The control remains with the capitalist class, and the structural inequalities of capitalism persist, preventing true democratic participation for the majority of the population.

You speak not for democracy but for the communism of the rentiers.

For empirical evidence: [rotenotes: "2) Capitalist development entails an increasing c…" - Qoto Mastodon](https://qoto.org/@rotenotes/112439988579619806)

@rotenotes What does the marxist perspective have to do with democracy? We are discussing whether its democratic, not if it is fair or good or communistic.