Void Abyss @voidabyss@qoto.org

@freemo

You are over complicating a very simple questions and making up debate fallacies and claiming dishonest arguments to shutdown discussion the same way you did with the mRNA vaccines which has been proven that they are neither safe nor effective(so no point to further that debate).

I pretty sure we can agree that Abrahamic religions originated from the middle east, Communism originated from Europe or Buddhism originated from Asia.

So, the question here is simple:

What’s the origin of the master race ideology?

First, we have to agree what is the master race ideology?

Simple, do you agree with the Wikipedia definition and its historical background?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

Another question simple question is:

Do you believe that white European are genetically superior to other humans?
(Please answer this question)

If a white European has that believe, they fell for the master race ideology which is the backbone of white supremacy.

As is Very clear here the point of debate was not if white europeans are racist, I concede thatpoint many times and never once disagreed… As I pointed out and the point you yourself claimed was that it was purely of european origin. Something you absolutely failed to prove and were quite clearly disoproven on.

The question here is not the what’s the origin of racism or slavery.

My understanding of your claims that many nations around the world have some aspects of racism and slavery in their culture therefore the Master race Ideology is not purely European.
https://qoto.org/@freemo/111167309620923619

If that’s your claim, I respectfully disagree.

Limiting the master race ideology to racism and slavery diminishes many horrible aspects of it that are exclusively white European.

One point I want to make very clear here:

I never claimed nor I believe that white europeans are racist. That’s borderline racist against whites to make that claim.

My claim is that white European Elite (Philosophers, scientists, leaders) started the Master race Ideology.
I believe those elite represent the 1% minority, and that majority of white European are victim of that Ideology as well as many nations around the world that was exploited by those minority white European Elite.

https://qoto.org/@voidabyss/111167278359841915
https://qoto.org/@voidabyss/111167462849461879

I just want to add that the majority of white European are the victim of the white European Elite ideology, through out history i.e (WWI, WWII) and up to this day.

My questions are simple, fair and in good faith, I can clear up any misinterpretation you want.
Claiming that I engage in dishonest conversation that’s your own projection, I don’t why you do it? In my opinion it’s your way to shutdown the conversation.

@freemo

you are the ones who set the rules of engagement. I even pointed out before I played the game by your rules that the rules were absurd… but I did it anyway… I followed the rules, proved you wrong by your rules, and pointed out youd move the goal post (in part because the rules were stupid)… and well here we are.

I didn’t set anything up, this is a classic straw-man argument you’re making up.

I made the claim that the master race ideology has European origins, I was planning to bring quotes from prominent European leaders, philosophers promoting that ideology. I didn’t yet. I just linked to Wikipedia which gives a good introduction to this subject.

Not once did I in any way say white supremacy or racism wasnt real, expansive, or a major issue. In fact I said nothing to diminish it. What I did point out is that horrific racism has been the norm across the globe and is not the exclusive domain of the whites… this doesnt diminish the evil the whites have done int he least, it only points out it is in no way unique to white people.

I read this more like CYA, then a valid argument against white supremacy. Racism and slavery are aspects of white supremacy, some nations have practice those to some marginal extent compared to white, sure. But I sill believe that master race ideology has European roots in a sense that European Philosophers, scientists, leaders, have claimed that some European men are better genetically evolved compared to others and that basically they should rule the whole world.
And please don’t get me started on Eugenics.

As I pointed out when I saw your intellectual dishonest argument coming.. you quoting white supremacy till the cows come home do nothing to advance this discussion because white supremacy was never in question.. the fact that you need to pretend like it was and argue against fantasies of arguments I never made is quite telling to say the least.

I don’t make or engage with dishonest arguments.

White supremacy stems from the master race ideology which has European origins, that pretty much sums up the discussion.

@freemo

Wow, you really think you won an argument quoting the North Korea’s communist dictatorship state media propaganda.

I am not here arguing for the sake of winning a debate, but to see other perspectives on this matter. When I said the master race ideology has European origins that’s factually true, you can read more about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

The Oxford English Dictionary records that William J. Grayson used the phrase “master race” in his poem The Hireling and the Slave (1855):

For these great ends hath Heaven’s supreme command
Brought the black savage from his native land,
Trains for each purpose his barbarian mind,
By slavery tamed, enlightened, and refined;
Instructs him, from a master-race, to draw
Wise modes of polity and forms of law,
Imbues his soul with faith, his heart with love,
Shapes all his life by dictates from above

It’s not about moving the goal post, it seems to me you want to diminish European White Supremacy impact on the world over the last two centuries.

@freemo I just read it, you haven’t @ me on that reply, was that on purpose to prove your point?

@freemo

i called you out on your bad argument before you even made it

When was that?

@freemo This is the internet and I am arguing behind an anon account, so nothing here is personal. I poked through all of your examples, although you haven’t point out to any invalid argument, I like the Latin abbreviation “QED” to end the debate. 😅

@freemo

caste system

it’s horrible system, but It’s more of a Hindu social class system then master race based ideology, it’s Hindu India’s version of European feudalism system.
Look up how the British exploited that system to divide and conquer India.

Ghandi

His is British educated, that’s more of the British education racist undertone.

Note, Kaffir has noting similar with “nigger”.
In Islam, Kaffir mean someone who rejected the believe in God. It’s more like Atheist. It is big deal when someone is labeled as kaffir, because the punishment is death.

Korean state media

I believe that american media said more racist claims about Obama then Korean state media.
This has nothing to do with Korean culture, beliefs or treatment of other civilizations.

@freemo

But Human considering others as subhuman or even another race, this is white European Elite Ideology.

The truth of this statement has nothing to do with scale. So while scale may “matter a lot” due to societal impact (and it does) that still has no relevance to the argument in debate at the moment.

I still stand with that statement, because I can bring you many quotes from so many prominent white European Elite(Philosophers, politicians, rules, writer, etc) that make claim.

I challenge you bring quotes from prominent Elite from North Africa, middle eat, south America, that make that claim.

I truly believe that the master race Ideology is purely European origin.

Note:(Ideologies tend to spread, so other nations i.e Japan embracing that ideology does’t make it less European).

@threalist @mike805

@freemo 👍

@freemo @threalist @mike805

We can argue back and forth all day about history.

notice again you talk about scale, and thats valid, at no point did I suggest the less populace nations with fewer resources were able to scale at anywhere near white nations… probably not… but also largely irrelevant. Per capita it was more or less the same, whites arent guilty just for being more industrial or there being more of them.

We can agree that scale matter a lot, whether in terms of slave trade impact on the European global dominance with a large network of slave colonies, or recent massive scale of use fossil fuels, the wars to control that trade and it’s impact on the planet in terms of climate change.

It seems like that the white European Elite greed has no limit until the destruction of the planet. Ether by nukes or climate change.

@freemo @threalist @mike805

Civilizations fighting each other has always occurred, I agree, human using others for slaves or free labor, has occurred in many civilizations, I agree. But Human considering others as subhuman or even another race, this is white European Elite Ideology.

> The northern africans enslaved white people... we had to go to war to stop them from enslaving whites....

Bullshit, how much many of "white slave" descendant live in North Africa right now? Compare that of black slaves descendant that live in US or European colonies.

They were act of ship piracy, yes! The European were the ones taking north African for slaves thought out history from the Roman Empire to recent European colonization of North Africa.

>Central africans enslaved their own people for sale to salve traders, so they had a hand in their own slavery, and sometimes even owned their own slaves within tribes.

The slave trade has been forced to many African nations back then as they are now force to sell their natural resources for cheap.

>There is no shortage of examples of every race, any race, enslaving almost any other... this includes white people on both sides of slavery throughout history.

Classic history whitewash to justify the massive industrial scale of the European international slave trade.

I just want to add that the majority of white European are the victim of the white European Elite ideology, through out history i.e (WWI, WWII) and up to this day.

@freemo @threalist @mike805

I might be wrong on this, reading history, I have the impression that white European elite(intellectuals, politicians, high class families, etc.) looked at many human civilizations and considered many as subhuman and treated their people as commodity i.e India, Africa, South America, Polynesia, etc).

I don't believe that this the defacto human civilization dynamic, were the dominant civilization enslave the other ones.

I think this white European Elite Ideology that still persist to this day in other forms of control at the global level, i.e modern debt slavery, IMF, WHO, etc.

@freemo I am becoming extremely skeptical of any bs coming from the any govt. Mexico's govt has even revealed an "alien" mummified body!
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/close-encounter-with-alien-bodies-mexico-2023-09-16/

@freemo puff, just another bs story to fund big govt.

@JayLittle @linuxiac still it’s a big shift from being another Ubuntu spin.

@vwbusguy I use it because I don’t like to open ssh service to the world (even on non standard ports). So to ssh to my servers I have to pass through the proxy.

@vwbusguy Have you tried shadowsocks? it become my main tool to setup proxy servers.