@freemo Yeah, up to now drinks have been spiked, so people became more aware, you can get covers for glasses for example, there is cctv, people are perhaps more aware / observant.

this just takes it to another level now.

Problem is the UK is WEAK and PATHETIC when it comes to handing out sentences, so people are doing this with impunity, low chance of getting caught, lower chances of getting convicted and if caught and convicted you end up with a low prison term.

@zleap @freemo they're busy prosecuting journalists for reporting muslim criminals for hurting their dignity even when the criminals were convicted of child molestation

@icedquinn

Has this actually happened?

@zleap

@freemo @icedquinn

Not sure but in Rochdale the local authority was so scared of being branded racist they didn't step in with regard to Asian gangs grooming and raping young girls.

@zleap

Not the same thing, but a concerning pattern. I will admit it is common for the news to play race politics in how they report to such a degree as to lead to absurdity.

I remember a british friend posted an article about this "racist" old white lady who was racist because she called the cops on a black guy for breaking and entering into his own home. I mean he was locked out and breaking into the home through his window. It seems a reasonable response for her to have and to assume she must have just been racist because the dude was black was laughably absurd, yet that seems to be how the news spins it quite often.

@icedquinn

@freemo @zleap usual divide and conquer crap. make some population segment politically untouchable and then go after the other's for jaywalking. makes people naturally resentful. then pivot the resentment in to a "racism" epidemic that you can solve by inserting more social policing with.

@icedquinn

No doubt that is effectively the end result. Whether it is the intentional result or just the organic path it takes is another matter.

@zleap

@freemo @zleap altho as a USian i wouldn't say that making jail terms longer actually helps anything. There was a whole book on the evolution of the infinite jail sentence obsessions called "Just and Painful" where the author goes in to the history of Britain trying to codify rope lashes and then people started bikeshedding over how many croppings goes to how many crimes and then they replaced corporal punishment with confinement and keep going on about the number like its some high score.

@icedquinn

jail as a form of punishment is not at all effective at preventing crime really. There is a much bigger effect in preventing crime by simply providing good living conditions for the population and good mental health access.

@zleap

@freemo @icedquinn
+1to that,

@icedquinn @freemo

We need to make prison work, as in you go in for a long time (end of ) but while in prison it must try and help that person, so 1 if they are addicted to something then help them get over that addiction

People turn to drugs to try and get out of other problems (low self esteem, low skills, lack of employment) so once they are off drugs then figure out and actually help them gain new skills etc.

Other drug addictions seem to be down to pharma companies making meds that cause addiction so that needs fixing,

Better mental heath support is also needed, esp during the current pandemic.

Come out of prison reformed, hopefully.

@zleap @freemo nobody comes out of prisons reformed. they're just storage facilities where people end up getting psychologically broken, probably injured and improperly healed, institutionalized, then abandoned back to society in worse shape than they started.

it's about as moronic and having people memorize answers for 10 years and then calling them smart.

@zleap @freemo ironically the guy who wrote that book (Just and Painful) was calling for the return of corporal punishment, since just whipping somebody and being over with it is cheaper, faster, and less damaging for the people who aren't like serial killers.

although he suggests using TENS units since it won't leave scars and can be easily adjusted to result in a 'sufficient' amount of pain.

@icedquinn

I own a relatively high power TENS and have turned it up to max.. yea its not pleasant at all but as far as torture goes its actually relatively barable.

@zleap

@freemo Hello fellow BDSM enjoyer

@INSTALLGENTOO hahaha. honestly while i dont own it for sexual reason it has entered the bedroom on occasion for some experimentation. I never really thought of it as BDSM but I cant object to that description either.

@freemo @icedquinn

I seem to remember that story,

I agree she did the right thing calling the cops, what would have happened if that person had actually been breaking in with criminal intent.

Could of ended badly. Cops in the US seem on a higher state of alert, as if they expect to be attacked at every call. The difference between the US and UK is in the US people carry guns.

@zleap

A US cop will shoot your puppy just for wanting some cuddles. Obviously the cop doesnt think the dog is carrying a gun. The gun excuse doesnt fit the fact. Also the majority of cops support gun rights rather than oppose them.

The difference isnt that the population has guns, the difference is that our police have guns and more often than not can shoot an armed person dead and get off with minimal repercussions. You'd be amazed how much violence will actually develop when you give someone the freedom to have a gun AND the ability to avoid repercussions when they use it to murder someone.

@icedquinn

@freemo @icedquinn Over here if a police officer shoots someone they have to account for their actions.

Saying that the guy who attacked fishmongers hall was shot after some people subdued him

The guy tat killed the MP on Friday wasn't shot by the police when they arrived. He is currently being questioned. I am under the impression that people saw him stab the MP 17 times.

@zleap @freemo there are investigations in to shoots in the USA. but juries are unlikely to convict a cop unless it's the subject of a highly politicized hit job.

@icedquinn @freemo You mean like George Floyd ?

I think if the cop had been let off, the US would have seen massive riots in every city for months.

@zleap @freemo in an idealized world the jury would know nothing about a case or the people involved except for what gets brought in to the court record.

this is obviously impossible for high profile cases.

@zleap

The cop didnt shoot george floyd, he was much more cruel, he slowly suffocated him and even after being told the man was dead and stopped breathing he refused people to attend to him and continued to suffocate his lifeless body for something like 4 more minutes...

At least with a gun he might have the excuse that he reacted before thinking (not a good excuse but its something)

@icedquinn

@freemo @icedquinn didn't a cop shoot a 13 year old boy about the same time of the trial, did anything come from that. ?

@zleap

You'd have to narrow it down, a lot of 13 year old boys get shot by cops,

@icedquinn

@freemo @icedquinn This was about the same time as the Trial of George Floyd, in an alleyway in Chicago not sure, it was in the news briefly

@freemo @zleap @icedquinn it's not possible to suffocate someone like that

@MaceDindu

Not true, and wouldnt even be relevant if it were true. Sitting on a dead persons chest for 4 minutes after they die refusing people to do CPR is more than daming enough regardless of if he suffocated him or not, which he did.

@icedquinn @zleap

@freemo @icedquinn @zleap He was neither sitting, nor on his chest. And you don't know when he actually died, and it's not exactly normal procedure to have randos on the scene perform CPR

@MaceDindu @icedquinn @freemo

Anyone who is trained in first aid can give CPR

@zleap @icedquinn @freemo maybe so, but I'm pretty sure it's not standard procedure for randos to administer CPR on people in custody when an ambulance is inbound.

@MaceDindu

All cops are requyired to be CPR certified actually as part of their training in almost ever precinct in america. Even myself as a SCUBA diver am CPR certified and "As a rando" have duty to perform CPR should it be needed.

@icedquinn @zleap

@freemo @MaceDindu @icedquinn

That makes sense, and should doing a pulse / breathing check be a requirement BEFORE doing CPR. ?

ABC

Airway
Breathing
Circulation

@MaceDindu @icedquinn @freemo By randos do you mean random people.

Over here if a person collapses people can dial 999 to get an ambulance but in the mean time can give CPR, the call handler can give directions to perform CPR, it has saved many lives.

@MaceDindu

Someone took his pulse (a fellow cop) and informed him there was no pulse and he seemed dead, insisting he needed help. His body was limp. There is no conceivable way you can justify his actions following that. Even if there is an off chance the police officer was wrong, your just grasping at straws at that point. When someone is unconscious and your told they have no pulse, your priority as a cop is to help the person, espcially considering this is a person who was not being arrested for any acts of violence of any kind.

@icedquinn @zleap

@freemo @MaceDindu @zleap i'm not sure if cops in the US are actually certified to declare someone dead or perform pulse checks

firemen are to do pulse checks

@icedquinn

Yes doing a pulse check is part of the CPR procedure and defines how you administer CPR. Someone with a pulse and not breathing is handled different than someone without a pulse and not breathing.

@MaceDindu @zleap

@freemo @icedquinn @MaceDindu

IIRC for no pulse it is 30 compressions at 2 per second,

@freemo @MaceDindu @icedquinn

Agreed, end of the day the cops scions resulted in George Floyd s death, and he is clearly heard saying "I can't breath"

He could have stopped, or made different choices but chose to carry on with what he was doing.

@zleap @freemo @icedquinn he was saying "I can't breathe" long before he was even on the ground. He couldn't breathe because he was overdosing on fentanyl

@MaceDindu

Again even if true doesnt change the guilt of the cop. Once he went lifeless and was told there was no pulse his actions made him as guilty as a murderer and should have

@icedquinn @zleap

@freemo @icedquinn @zleap you mentioned cruelty, then proceeded to make a string of false claims to justify that assessment. But what you're really accusing him here is incompetence, which I do not deny. Probably if he didn't have a gang of hostiles surrounding him shouting at him, he would have been more attentive to Floyd's condition, but we'll never know. At the end of the day, Floyd would almost certainly be alive if he'd just gotten in the goddamn car.

@MaceDindu

Oops sorry im not competent enough to know that once someone tells me someone else is dead that I should stop sitting on top of the person.

The dude literally told a cop trying to give him medical attention no. Thats not simple incompetence at that point,.

@icedquinn @zleap

@zleap White boy gets the same treatment in Canada three months later, says same thing. no one said a thing. The outrage is manufactured.

@INSTALLGENTOO

It seems to be more about what grabs the headlines and causes the rright responses, reporting the news is a side project for the media.

@freemo @zleap @icedquinn Sounds like a Fentanyl overdose to me.

@Ariovistus @icedquinn @freemo From what I understandabout Fentanyl it Opioid based and can be or is addictive and leads to more problems than it solves.

But makes big bucks for Pharma companies.

@zleap

Nah fentanyl is abused for sure and yes leads to many problems. But it is a legitimate drug that many patients legitimately need. It is the only thing that can give many any reasonable quality of life at all.

@Ariovistus @icedquinn

@Ariovistus

Wouldnt change his guilt even slightly if it was. Sitting on a dead mans chest refusing to let people resuscitate him for 4+ minutes means that no matter what triggered his death he is just as guilty in my opinion.

@icedquinn @zleap

@icedquinn @freemo

Who investigates, here in the Uk we have an office for police conduct thatis independent.

Right now the Met Police are embroiled in quite a few sex abuse scandles, elegations of mis conduct and much more, but so far the Head of the Met Police Cressida Dick is still in charge and our Home secretary has already given her a 2 year extension to the post, this was before Wayne C|ouzens murdered (and raped) sarah Everard.

The met police is a mess, meanwhile crime is on the increase, reports of stabbings, shootings, gangs with machetes and the police seem powerless, partly due to lack of trust from the population.

@zleap

Technically speaking an officer needs to try to justify their actions here too. The problem is the standard for that justification is much lower than the general public.

An acceptable justification might be "I saw him reaching under the seat", as it turns out he just had a water bottle under the seat or something. Now if a citizen shot someone dead for reaching under their seat you better believe they wont get off.

@icedquinn