Wow you two voted really quickly and for the same emacs. I think it's meant to be. Soulmates.

Unless(or even if?) it's @freemo voting from multiple accounts.

@Absinthe Both spacemacs and doom-macs are Emacs + Evil, but yea no vanilla option for that

@freemo I pretty much have Emacs + Evil running org mode all the time, and Vim is used for editing code.

@Absinthe yea Spacevim, but its far less popular. I've never done a real deep dive on vim or emacs until lately. So I'm really not sure what Vim would offer me that Emacs + Evil wouldnt.

@freemo the ability to support African children :)

The biggest "offer' is its ubiquity but as resources become cheaper, I am sure there will start to be more default distros that come with Emacs by default.

I think the bigger deal is more people moving to SCITE or Electron based editors. More of the CUA/SAA than either Vim or Emacs. Or IDE's in general.

@Absinthe Actually last I checked in 2019 vim was still a pretty strong choice among developers. Checkout the stackoverflow survey it goes into some crazy detail.

@freemo and, if you have to use Eclipse there is a plugin called Vrapper that makes the whole editing experience tolerable.

Another interesting thing is whether Vim people use Vim keys everywhere they can. Like vimperator in the browser, or 'set -o vi'on the bash command line and so forth.

@Absinthe What i like about vim is the keys are easy to remember, its why i like evil-mode flavors like spacemacs. The popup help as you type in spacemacs and doom-macs though is a clear winning feature for me

@freemo in general popup help tends to be irritating. But that is me. I have hated it since VB3 or so. :) For most code that I type, I don't need pop-up help anyway. At least not constantly. But you can get popup stuff in vim if you like. And now you can get it asynchronously too.

@Absinthe It is non-intrusive on spacemacs and doom-macs. If you know the command you type it so quickly the help at the bottom never shows. If you dont know the command and stop half way through it shows after a few ms delay. So it only shows when its needed and even then doesnt really get in the way

@freemo yeah you can get that in vim. I have it setup to give me the linting and documentation data as I type in vim. I usually have that turned off and only let me know when I save. But, that is all available in both places.

@freemo I am pretty sure, there is not much you can do in one that you can't do in the other. Another one to look at is

ErgoEmacs http://ergoemacs.org/ and

Cream for Vim http://cream.sourceforge.net/

These kind of 'actually' made modernizing changes

@Absinthe Also this (I havent tried it though): http://kakoune.org/

Its Vim based

@freemo haven't looked at that one. I just as soon use my vim a little closer to to the bone. I try to keep the plugins to a minimum

@freemo it's what I use btw

@mandlebro Yea I cant say im surprised.I personally would love to get in the head of someone who actually prefers Vim (or even vanilla Emacs). I really cant see why one would though im a noob to these techs as I always used them in vanilla mode to edit single files, and rarely source code.

@freemo spacemacs does come with a lot of bloat and sometimes the layers and modes seem to conflict in weird ways. The people I know who use vim like to do everything from the terminal. One does most of his programming remote through ssh.

@mandlebro I hear bloat used a lot.. I am highly bias as I call it "feature rich" which is good not bad. Only time bloat is bloat is when it is slow or other negative side effects.

Conflicts as you say would be legitimate, but it seems rare and easily avoided. Most modes have multiple key combos, and you can pick different leadin keys if needed. Good tools to identify when one layer masks another and how.

I've got an insane number of layers going (I cranked it up to 11) and havent had a single conflict of issue yet. But could be because I'm a noob i just dont see the issues yet either.

@mikey That is quite the ideological transition you made there.

@freemo Pragmatism. I started working a lot with Node and Typescript, and it was easier to just go with the flow. Same reason I used Eclipse for Android dev a long time ago.

For writing prose, though, give me my "das" and "cap" commands any day.

@mikey I am moving in the opposite direction (from gui to emacs) the the exact same reason, lol

@freemo I'd love to dive into the whole "Unix *is* my IDE" thing. Maybe one of these days...

@mikey It kinda makes sense with no explanation really, all the tools are there you'd need in an IDE really, find, replace, filetree, git commands. I get it. Only thing you'd have to offload is the actual fileediting.

Though i find the file editing part is 95% of what an IDE does anyway so I'm not sure it solves much unless you just dont want the code completion, syntax highlighting, inspections and similar visual aids. Which is fine, but personally I find those to be vital time savers.

@freemo This was the series I read that made me think about it:

https://sanctum.geek.nz/arabesque/unix-as-ide-introduction/

The idea appeals to the minimalist in me. Vim as editor, aided by bash, git, diff, etc. It's a simpler life.

@freemo ...by Electoral College, lol... 😜

@design_RG lololol