@freemo from what I understand
Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you can't host the virus and pass it on to others.
Vaccination simply helps the body build the immune system by being presented with an inert version of the virus, as far as I understand the body can then produce antibodies that recognise the spike proteins.
The body can then recognise the virus and, hopefully produce the correct response.
🇳🇱
When vaccines work they are usually great at stopping the spread. For the original strain of covid, for example, it both stopped symptoms **and** stopped the spread.
The new variants however (such as delta, the most prevalent one, and omicron) it is either completely in effective or significantly less effective (hard to draw firm conclusions off what studies we have). The point is, its not effective at stopping the spread because the spike protein it encodes for is different in the variants and thus the antibodies are ineffective to a significant degree (if not completely).
yea masks im not sure about. The data in them are questionable in either direction so we can only speculate about how or if they are effective.
I think if you are very strict in how you use them they probably help, but most people, almost no one, handles mask with the level of rigor needed for them to be effective.
I disagree, though again this is speculation. Given the habits most people have while using a mask I'd argue in most cases the act of wearing a mask probably increases the spread of the virus.
Yes good point, if you breath out the virus, then touch the mask then your hands are infected,
most shops have hand sanitizer as you walk in, i carry some with me.
Using hand sanitizer and breathing through your nose is probably a more effective combo then using a mask imo
Indeed, the ones I wear are just basic masks, so slip down, so i need to touch them to reset to the right place.
Yup, and all that touching of your face is likely putting you at more risk. Not to mention your nose itching, sipping water, or reusing them.
The people making these rules could probably afford to buy a 5 year supply easily.
also soap is still a good thingie.
well im in germany we have no kids anyway and everyone is 60+ years old
I suspect the mandatory mask mandates are part of the reason the virus is spreading so fast honestly. It doesnt have much to do with the quality of the mask
Good point,
Back in the 1920s there were other health risks too, TB etc, so having mild TB then gettign the flue could make the former worse (just speculating) but combine that with air pollution, etc, people having coal fires at home, or cold damp homes, and it is a lethal combination.
Thankfully things like TB / Polio have been wiped out pretty much in most countries)
Quite the opposite, the studies are exceptionally weak in nature. Virtally all use uncontrolled observational data subjected to confounding. Essentially they are prime examples of the post hoc ergo procter hoc fallacy. The few lab controlled studies we have (and they do exist) do not factor in the points I mentioned earlier.
So I think there is some decent evidence to show that a doctor using rigorous guidelines in how they conduct themselves in a surgical environment is certainly going to see a protective effect for their patient I dont think there is any good evidence this would carry over to the non-rigorous environment of the general public where none of the usual good practices are maintained.
I would guess in an operating theatre there are checks / safeguards in place to ensure all PPE is used correctly.
A doctor has an entire team to cater to them just to ensure the integrity of the mask and hands. Tey have people who will scratch their nose for them even.
Its like saying "condoms are proven to work"... well yea, but not when you reuse them a dozen times and take them half-off half a dozen times during sex.
Apparently we need to wear one in a cinema, not sure if this is just in the lobby area or also in where the movie is being played.
ofc it is not randomised but it is hard to do that with a pandemic disease
In fact with just a quick read I cant see why you'd think it would address any of the points I listed at all, the study doesnt bring them up or consider any of the points I mentioned in the study so far as I can tell.
I will have a longer read later.
Ok then ill have to read, my cursory glance didnt seem to see anything about face touching in their model.
Though regardless if its non-randomized observational study it still has the underlying issue of confounding and thus the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. But ill give it a full read to give a more proper answer
At a cursory glance i took leakage to mean particles that escape out of the side. Not the effects of people taking off their mask and touching it and their face constantly.
I am not seeing anything to address any of the concerns i brought up such as:
* face touching
* constantly pulling the face down to your chin (spreading infection around your face)
* mask reuse
* exposing just the nose
* confounding between mask users and other good habits
* addressing post hoc ergo procter hoc through use of causality tests
etc.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/tbed.14094 though i cant find any information if it is peer reviewed
Pressuming this study is correct (as you say it doesnt look like it is peer reviewed) then it may be fair to say people touch their face less. But it doesnt negate the other points such as pulling ones mask down to drink infecting both their chin and hands in doing so,
How many times a day does someone take a sip of water? Each of those times is a touch event and it appears this study isnt really counting those.
Indeed given we are meant to consume a few litres of water per day (or liquid) to stay hydrated.
In general I'd expect eating and drinking in general, with a virus laiden mask on your face you need to handle (not to mention your now infected chin) to be rather risky.
If people tossed the mask and washed their face **and** hands before eating it might be much safer, but drinking, since it happens so often, seems particularly risky with a mask.
As @freemo said, there is more to this than just the mask, you are meant to not touch it, wash hands after removing it, etc.
I wear 1 mask when out, if I enter a shop it is over my face as best as it can be, if it slips I adjust it,
on exiting the shop it comes off or is removed / lowered from covering face to give me some fresh air.
I can't stay in shops too long with these things on, I can't make my self understood to others easily, can't hear other people properly if they are wearing a mask.
So the mask my protect me from Covid, but wearing them probably causes more problems in other areas.
Its also quite horrific for the deaf who rely on lip reading.
I know for me it gives me a great deal of distress to wear one, but thats another matter.
I am *not* an expert at this but not just from a mental health viewpoint
stopping regular exercise means the body then has to adjust to not taking the same routine.
The if you start again the body has to adjust again.
Apparently this can take a few weeks for the body to adjust to these changes.
I would guess that a sauna could kill off any nasty stuff,
isn't one the idea of a sauna is to help remove bad stuff from the body via sweat.
with other virus based diseases people who go to sauna have less issues and get sick less often but there is no data for covid.
sauna itself is cleaning the skin and often training the lungs and the heart.
regarding drinking im at the priviliged position to have home office and everything so i wear a mask like less than an hour per day and can stop eating/drinking for that time
I would expect saunas to kill coroana by drying out the droplets quickly, not by heat. Assuming we are talking a dry sauna. In a wet sauna I'd expect corona to thrive.
I think if you wear a mask for short periods to enter a store and throw it away after and are careful to only handle it by the elastic bands (or disinfect your hands right after) then it is probably offering some sort of protective effect. But i also suspect this is a small minority of cases. Most people are no longer staying home and are going about their normal lives just adding masks on top. So for most people I expect masks to probably cause more harm than good because of the habits introduced over the long term as we already covered.
@freemo @khaosgrille Ah ok thanks, that clears a few things up.
I still think it is worth wearing a mask most of the time anyway, esp in crowded places such as shops etc.