@freemo Please confirm that Quey has a back-up strategy to ensure that users don't lose everything in case of an emergency or shutting down. -- see §2 https://joinmastodon.org/covenant
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It is important for users to
have the confidence that a
trip over the power cable or
a rogue bit flip will not erase
all of their data. Having a
backup strategy is a basic
necessity of providing a
public service
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Humblr did disappear this month. We don't know what happened, but the result is very much like the explicit circumstances contemplated in §2 -- an event "erase[d] all of [our] data."
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More significant is the fact that Humblr's relationships vanished without notice
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Humblr was a social media site; and this means that Humblr was about more than just an archive of images and words.
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Humblr was about people and the links between us which were forged slowly over time.
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If Mastodon is about "taking back control of your social media", then it means asking reasonable questions based on the Mastodon Covenant.
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QOTO is also a social media site, so these issues are timely and appropriate and prudent
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Reasonable questions about QOTO need clear and reasonable responses.
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QOTO = Question Others to Teach Ourselves?
🇳🇱
@chikara Why are you asking me to confirm things about other servers I do not run? you need to ask the owners of those servers.
@freemo I've only asked you about this Mastodon instance.
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I was shocked when a spokesman refused to confirm that there is a Mastodon.social commitment to give users at least 3 months of advance warning in case of shutting down.
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With all due respect, this means that a core element of the Mastodon Covenant is not credible. This means that everyone who read and relied on the specifics of the Covenant were wrong to do so.
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That's a big problem.
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Although @LuigiEsq@mastodon.social spoke on behalf of another instance, he was claiming to speak on behalf of the core organizers of the Mastodon network.
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This astonishing admission opens the door to corollary issues which I have now raised with with you.
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With regret, I see that you haven't responded to my explicit inquiries about §2 and §3 of the Mastodon Covenant. Please set my mind at ease with your reply.
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Reasonable questions about QOTO need clear responses.
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QOTO = Question Others to Teach Ourselves?
@khird Be kind. -- see https://qoto.org/about/more
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In other words, think again. Please display your good or benevolent nature. Please try to be indulgent, considerate, and helpful.
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The core value of QOTO has to do with asking questions. Is that not precisely what I've done? Respect that core value and your mistakenly perceived annoyance will fade like fog in sunlight
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If you like, I'll be glad to respond to your post, but first, please explain how you captured any part of the of the list you made. I don't see posts in that way. I don't know how to do what you have done -- see
5: https://mastodon.social/@LuigiEsq/103195944949371362
6: https://mastodon.social/@LuigiEsq/1031
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Be respectful.
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Please accept my thanks for one of your phrases which I found to be extraordinarily helpful -- "are deliberately spamming the timeline with copypasta." But before I explain more, may I ask if the final word in the phrase "copypasta" or "copypaste"?
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Kyle, your post is a good illustration of the usefulness of questioning others to teach ourselves. Thank you.
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QOTO = Question Others to Teach Ourselves?
Copy @freemo
> The core value of QOTO has to do with asking questions. Is that not precisely what I've done?
It certainly is a value, which is why it's important to do it well. May I suggest the following pointers for improvement: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
In particular, note the following:
> Hasty-sounding questions get hasty answers, or none at all.
The lack of proofreading that led to you naming Sinblr and Quey in your questions here is the direct cause of the unsatisfactory response[1] you got.
> Being seen to invest effort in simplifying the question makes it more likely you'll get an answer.
Had you pruned your questions down by removing the copied content, it is likely they would not have been mistaken for duplicates.
> Never assume you are entitled to an answer.
Complaining that you are "shocked" and "astonished" at the answers you've been given, that you "regret" the lack of response to your inquiries, that you find the replies "evasive", etc. will be read as ingratitude for the effort others put in to assist you, for free.
As regards your other points:
> Please explain how you captured any part of the of the list you made.
I right-click the timestamp and copy link location (using the web interface) to get each link. Then I insert a bracketed number into my post, and add the link at the end with a label corresponding to the bracketed number.
> May I ask if the final word in the phrase "copypasta" or "copypaste"?
Copypasta. "Copy and paste" is a verb phrase, while "copypasta" is a colloquialism for the actual content that gets duplicated in this manner.
@khird That you for your prose, You give me specific words to use in reply. It is only natural to feel and express "gratitude for the effort others put in to assist [me], for free." It's not always easy to find words to express appreciation in an effective way.
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For now, there's no way to thank you enough for the link to "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way." I'm studying it. This means I plan to continue reading the sentences over and over. In the new year, after I've thanked you again, maybe my words will begin to take on the meaning + nuance + value which are lacking today.
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Over the course of the coming months, I hope you'll decide for yourself that consequences of your investment in me turn out to be what you intended, what you wanted, what you hoped.
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The unintended consequences are good, too; but I'd guess these are the opposite of what you're expecting.
PREMISE: The sentences
of @khird are
axioms -- unquestioned
in every circumstance I
can imagine except this
one.
In a narrowly-focused context, you felt compelled to offer an opinion about questions I presented @freemo. I posted three questions about QOTO.
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My questions arose from the prominently published and publicized Mastodon Covenant, and my perceived entitlement to answers flows from the same source.
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You used cut-and-paste from "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way" when you posted:
> Never assume you are entitled to an answer. -- see "Before you ask," ¶7 of 8 http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before
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This copied sentence is an axiom, yes?
A. Oxford defines an axiom as "a statement or proposition which is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true.
B. Oxford defines an axiom in math as "a statement or proposition on which an abstractly defined structure is based."
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The Mastodon Covenant functions as an axiom defined by Eugen Rochko for the Mastodon federation and for each Mastodon instance, yes? In other words,
• the Mastodon Covenant is "a statement or proposition on which an abstractly defined structure [of the federation of Mastodon 'instances'] is based."
• the Mastodon Covenant is "a statement or proposition on which an abstractly defined structure [of each Mastodon 'instance'] is based."
• the Mastodon Covenant is "a statement or proposition on which an abstractly defined structure [of QOTO.org] is based."
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The nexus created by the gravamen of my questions, the published context for my questioning and the role of a spokesman for a Mastodon instance is unique.
RESTATEMENT: With all due respect, I do not assume anything about @khird. Any words @khird offers to me are a gift. And it bears repeating that I'm thankful for such gifts.
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However, @freemo stands in a significantly different relationship with me within the ambit of @Qoto.org. This is because, in any context of questioning about the Mastodon Covenant and/or QOTO.org, @freemo is defined by his role as spokesman for the instance.
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Do you understand the point I'm trying to make? What do you think?
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QUESTION/AXIOM? The study of Mastodon federation, Mastodon instances and QOTO.org, including questions about QOTO arising from the Mastodon Covenant, is a STEM subject.
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QOTO = Question Others to Teach Ourselves?
> For now, there's no way to thank you enough for the link to "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way."
I'm glad to help. Be sure to also thank its author if you find it useful.
> In a narrowly-focused context, you felt compelled to offer an opinion about questions I presented @freemo. I posted three questions about QOTO.
For the sake of clarity, I'd like to correct this. You posted a question about Quey, and what I offered was a rebuttal of your claim that you'd only asked about QOTO (a separate instance from Quey). I also hypothesised that your later questions were mistaken for duplicates on account of the excessive copied content.
> > Never assume you are entitled to an answer.
> This copied sentence is an axiom, yes?
Axioms are a subset of declarative (statement) sentences, as they have to have a truth value. "Never assume you are entitled to an answer" is instead an imperative (command) sentence, which doesn't have a truth value.
Its corresponding declarative sentence would be "You never assume you are entitled to an answer." This might or might not be true, but it isn't an axiom: we infer its truth or falsity from other evidence such as your behaviour.
Taking section 2 as an example, the statment "QOTO has daily backups" is likewise declarative but not axiomatic. You can find evidence of its truth in @freemo's statement that QOTO is in compliance with the covenant and that keeping daily backups is a provision of the covenant. As corroborating evidence, you could also read https://qoto.org/about/more which states that QOTO is "professionally hosted with nightly backups".
> Do you understand the point I'm trying to make?
If this is an accurate restatement of your point, then I understood it:
You believe @freemo's position as administrator entitles you to receive from him answers to your questions about QOTO.
> What do you think?
I disagree. His role makes it likely he would know the answer to your questions, and positions him as an appropriate person to ask. He's also explicitly welcomed your questions and tries to answer them well. However, that stops short of entitling you to answers, so it's inappropriate to complain about their timeliness or quality. Asking nicely for clarifications would be a better response if you are dissatisfied.
@khird @freemo I just drafted a timely note about kinsugi. This is a Japanese method for repairing broken crockery with gold.
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I've been fussing about this subject for the past week or so.
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It's hard to explain why I thought repairing broken dishes would help me figure out how to disagree with you or someone else. All my best intentions were frustrated. I just couldn't hold the the cup together in my fingers or in my mind without a bowl of rice.
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But then you somehow managed to assemble what I was trying to bring together.
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GOLD + LACQUER + SKILL. Your words achieve exactly what I wanted to do. You wrote,
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"His role makes it likely he would know the answer to your questions, and positions him as an appropriate person to ask. He's also explicitly welcomed your questions and tries to answer them well. However, that stops short of entitling you to answers."
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I especially like the phrase "that stops short."
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In your writing, the ceramic pieces are distinct; and you assemble them in a sequence. I need to figure out how to reverse engineer what you've done.
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I'm so glad to be wrong. Or maybe I'm glad that the way I was wrong is so transparently clear for you. This is good.
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It's awkward to explain, but this kind of wrong feels like a success. Thank you.
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As a gesture of thanks, please accept a couple of images -- a tattoo of the romaji word "kintsugi" + a kanji tattoo of a synonym "kintsukuroi"
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A Google image search for images of dishes revealed these tattoos. It's not hard to imagine a story which explains why someone might want to do this, but for me, it's still a little bit surprising
@khird I'm still struggling with one of your sentences. You wrote, "Actually, I'm sure they don't, because I can see that you're annoying them."
My resolute response has always been NO, you're wrong -- but I've had no words to explain why. Today I found one word -- umbrage. Both @Gargron and @LuigiEsq@mastodon.social married umbrage and name-calling as tactic.-- see image below, Graham's hierarchy of disagreement; and see"How to Disagree" http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
Theirs was a successful tactic.
I've almost moved on except for a continuing interest in figuring out what I could have done differently.
It bears repeating that I had no lack of words to explain, YES, I think I see what you saw. And it was easy to accept your proposed plan for what to do better going forward. -- see "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way"
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
I don't quite understand how Raymond & Moen can help me deflate umbrage -- not really, not yet; but its a start.
This was your point, right? -- that I have no control over what others do, but at least, I can try to have better control over my own words, right?
Thanks again.
I didn't see @Gargron＠mastodon.social call you any names, but it's entirely possible I've missed the relevant messages.
The bulk of "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way" is designed to help you avoid provoking umbrage in the first place, but there are two headings that may be helpful in deflating it once it's come up: "Dealing with rudeness" and "On Not Reacting Like a Loser".
I would argue you *do* have some limited control over what others do - for example, if you antagonise them, they are likely to behave in a more hostile way. You could consider "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way" advice concerning responsible excercise of this control.
@khird NO. These letters are upper case. If I understand correctly, this is the correct way to shout on the internet. Let's be clear: I'm shouting NO.
In real life, I don't shout. I'm a quiet man. But that's changing.
I was disbelieving when you imported homophobic hate to QOTO. I should have felt soiled, but I didn't. This confused me for a time, but not so much now.
"We know that every moment is a moment of grace." -- see 8th paragraph in Elie Wiesel's Nobel Prize acceptance speech https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1986/wiesel/26054-elie-wiesel-acceptance-speech-1986/
I presented my trivial questions to @freemo because of a blind and deaf woman
I cannot do everything, but
still I can do something; and
because I cannot do
everything, I will not refuse to
do something that I can do
-- Helen Keller
I was uncertain about what I owed to @admin et al. at Humlr.social
But you pushed me hard in a transformative direction; and I felt compelled to search out the words of a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
"There may be times when we are powerless ..., but there must never be a time when we fail to protest." -- see last paragraph in Elie Wiesel's 1986 Nobel Prize lecture https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1986/wiesel/lecture/
Generally, I almost always hold myself back unless I'm speaking up for someone else, and even then I'm slow. But that's changing.
NO. In this one word, you've helped me find my voice.
I can tell you that QOTO is in compliance with the covenant. You asked about other instances, not about QOTO. I can not speak on their behalf.
@LuigiEsq@mastodon.social
@freemo Your profile volunteers information about your birth -- that you were born in Philadelphia in the United States. This data makes it reasonable to infer that you have high level of fluency in English.
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I draw your attention to this because it suggests I would not be wrong to seek -- and find -- a high level of precision in your use of English.
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As you know, I asked three very specific questions and I explained a little bit about the context which caused me to seek more data about QOTO. Your response isn't exactly what I'd asked, but it's your answer. Thank you.
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You state: "QOTO is in compliance with the covenant." -- see "Mastodon Covenant" https://joinmastodon.org/covenant
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Your choice of words begs three questions:
(a) What is the Mastodon Covenant? and
(b) What does "compliance with the covenant" mean? and
(c) What are the consequences of our pointed question and answer exchange?
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Again, thank you. Your evasive response forced me to parse the issues more fully that I had done before.
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You wrote, "I can tell you that ..." and this phrase implies that there is something else you're not telling me and others. In other words, your choice of words is revealing. You're bluntly announcing that you've made a decision to be not clear, not straightforward, not helpful.
This disappointing choice of words begs two question:
(a) Why?
(b) What else?
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Again, thank you. This isn't what I'd expected, not what I wanted; but our exchange does demonstrate the usefulness of questioning others to teach ourselves.
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QOTO = Question Others to Teach Ourselves?
@chikara Dude what... what part needs clarification exactly. I dont even know what your concern is to be honest. My short answer is mostly because I'm busy and dont really know what your even asking for....
@chikara
> I've only asked you about this Mastodon instance.
This is a blatant falsehood. The timeline shows you've asked @freemo about QOTO[1][2], Sinblr[3], and Quey[4]. Apparently this is from simply not caring enough to proofread but then you really shouldn't expect anyone else to care enough to respond.
You're doing the same thing on multiple servers, and I don't think they appreciate it any more than we do. Actually, I'm sure they don't, because I can see that you're annoying them[5][6][7][8].
> I see that you haven't responded to my explicit inquiries about §2 and §3 of the Mastodon Covenant.
It appears they were mistaken for duplicates[9]. Significant fractions of the posts are word-for-word identical to the one he *did* answer, which at best is unnecessary repetition and at worst looks like you are deliberately spamming the timeline with copypasta.
1: https://qoto.org/@chikara/103194932276826890
2: https://qoto.org/@chikara/103195262932811017
3: https://qoto.org/@chikara/103195116062133823
4: https://qoto.org/@chikara/103195372122680388
5: https://mastodon.social/@LuigiEsq/103195944949371362
6: https://mastodon.social/@LuigiEsq/103195917423951015
7: https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/103195477821454886
8: https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/103195533864216794
9: https://qoto.org/@freemo/103195203045899014