SecondJon @SecondJon@qoto.org

@freemo
I'm not really trying to be dismissive. Maybe I'm doing that without trying... I was really wondering if there was any standard metric anyone used. I think there's a thousand ways to slice and dice things that are and aren't measurable and we all have our own perspective on it.

@nothingplanet @snow @AtlasFreeman @sda

Current panic level in my part of #Colorado : One employee has a cold. Several employees pack up all of their belongings, clear their desks and flee the office.

@nothingplanet

I agree with a lot of that.

I agree that the ideal would be a president who is better in every way than every predecessor, and is accurately perceived as such by every human and always presented perfectly be every media personality. I also don't believe that something is good just because someone else did it first.

But my only question was about the claim that Trump is the Worst President in History, and what that means, if anything. So in this context, it really matters how he compares, not only to Obama and Bush, but to John Quincy Adams and Franklin Pierce and Millard Fillmore. Has Trump been less honest or more divisive than Polk? What about Garfield? I have no idea, so I try to not make that kind of claim. I'm not claiming anyone at the WORST IN ALL HISTORY or the BEST OF ALL TIME, but seeking clarity about those who make those universal claims to see what's supporting them.

I think it tends to mean : I don't like him.

@snow @AtlasFreeman @sda @freemo

This seems unbelievable to me.

I've been #running since September and just signed up for my first marathon!

We'll see if it's canceled due to Wuhan Corona virus panic.

@nothingplanet
I'm as shocked as you are to discover that a politician isn't the epitome of honesty.

I've read through a number of "false and misleading claims" at the link you shared, and it's things like : he's cherry picking numbers, he's generalizing, he's staying numbers that China hasn't yet confirmed, his "almost this number" is rounding up....

When this is what's being reported on, it's hard to take it seriously. However, I do wonder how this compares to how they tracked previous presidents. Do they have a site like this where they documented every time previous presidents rounded up numbers, exaggerated, took things out of context? When judging Trump against all other presidents in history, we'd want an even comparison.

@snow @AtlasFreeman @freemo @sda

@snow
I don't think I've won anything...other than clarity, which is what I was after.

@AtlasFreeman
And in my news feed right now, proof that it's not single sided.
@ArdanianRight @freemo @sda @snow

@snow
I think the measuring the replies on Twitter from prior who are not the president is probably measurable. I'm not sure what those stats would show, but I don't think anonymous replies from randos on the web is how I'd decide who was the best and worst president in history.

@sno @freemo @sda
I would have thought that economy, jobs, starting international conflicts, deaths of the country's soldiers, harmful legislation, tax rates the debt, wages, etc., would have mattered more as objective measures of a nation's leaders.

But I have a feeling those measures would make him look better than most presidents (except perhaps debt where he's following the same pattern as his predecessors?), and we have a hard time looking at those measures objectively because we have a negative opinion of him personally.

It's like...what if everything was going well in the Star Wars universe than you found out that Jabba the Hut was the one in charge. It would be hard to mentally reconcile those two things.

I also wonder... The worst president OF ALL TIME? How well do you know EVERY other president enough to make that call? I think : "worst of my experience" would probably be better. Or maybe "worst since I started caring about politics"... Worst of my lifetime assumes I have a good understanding of who was president when I was a toddler. I'm not close to being a presidential history scholar, so I'm not qualified to make the statement myself.

This doesn't need to be a long or serious thread. I guess I'm just weary at the hyperbole and extremeness of our ongoing political talk. Politicians talk that way. We don't need to.

@sda
The total metrics for judging a president's ranking in history is how many statements are fact checked and what percent of those are claimed to be false, and how many psychologists diagnose from a distance the president who is not their patient.

Not how I would have chosen how to rank a president, but they are at least both measurable things.

@freemo
Maybe the language is throwing me off. If we're talking about the Measure of the president, it should be measurable.

@snow
I think that's purely subjective, not objective. Here's what I mean : How is that objectively measured, and how does his quantified measure of this metric compare on the scale compared to all other presidents to date?

I read comments on #qoto recently that Trump is the Worst President Ever. Are there objective measures that can be used in such a claim? Or is it more meaning something more : of everyone who is president of the USA in 2020, he's my least favorite?

(Sometimes it's hard to tell if the level of political commentary is like my 3 year old declaring it's the Worst Day Ever when she can't get a third serving of ice cream.)

Obama Announces He Is No Longer Responsible For The Economy

MARTHA'S VINEYARD, MA—From his seaside mansion, former president Barack Obama announced today that he is formally passing ownership of the stock market and economy on to President Trump."All the gains were mine -- Trump didn't build that -- but this crash is all on Trump," Obama said as he admired the ocean, which will consume his home …

https://babylonbee.com/news/obama-walks-back-comments-about-being-responsible-for-the-stock-market