SecondJon @SecondJon@qoto.org

"That's oligarch thinking... The hippie commune knew it in 72 hours. How long is it going to take everyone else?"

https://notthebee.com/article/come-read-this-ohio-teacher-absolutely-nuke-bernie-sanders-tired-oligarch-routine

@light I know few people who are against immigration altogether, but I do know some, which is odd. I think it's likely a reaction to the American leftists/mainstream media dropping any distinction in how illegal immigration is talked about, just referring to 'immigrants.'

"Deportations without due process" seems to be a political (rather than factual) phrase that's only been used during the current administration. The same with "brutality against protestors." We fall prey to the availability heuristic here, rather than having any factual data to make any kind of comparison.

I do think back to the "kids in cages" that were popularized by american leftists during Trump's first term, with no attention paid to the fact that these were from Obama's administration.

Given the trend of political slogans being taken as actual fact, I think the honest assessment is something more like: "Well, my corporate news sources didn't broadcast this stuff when it was a president they liked."

Which while more honest is a pretty weak statement.

@light But back to the actual topic of the conversation, no, I wasn't being sarcastic. It is fascinating to interact with someone who in response to a video showing recent democrat presidents formally presenting the same policies that the current republican president is acting on is: That dems haven't changed, it's Republicans who have, and then throwing around fascism and brutality and so on.

It seems disconnected. Which IS fascinating to me. No sarcasm there.

If you showed me a video of Trump saying the opposite of what he's doing now and asked if he's changed... the obvious answer would either be "Yes" or at least something addressing the content of what was shared.

You didn't address the content... at all.

Very different approaches to interaction and thinking about things. Fascinating. Like I said.

@light Interesting take. Do you feel that sarcasm can not be used in a civil conversation?

https://mastodon.social/@tusk81/116357968010746950 a post decrying that ICE is NOT separating children from their families.

"People under the age of 18 have often been held with their families..."

@redwhitebluedude I don't think Ellen ever gave up her citizenship. She just moved. Right?

@volkris I responding to your theory was that it's just one side (not your side) that has confirmation bias and just projects that on the other side.

I was just saying it seems obvious that both sides do the same thing.

@bibliolater As a naturalized citizen, I'm interested in this case, but the article lost me with the old trope of calling "racist".

The actual case seems to be that there's a phrase in the constitution about being subject the the jurisdiction of the United States that is in the constitution because it means something, and the other view is that the phrase should be ignored as not meaning anything at all.

Which is interesting.

I've read that the premise of the amendment was specifically intended to ensure that the children of slaves would have citizenship. Is there a reason to think the amendment was actually intended to grant citizenship to tourists and those in the country only by breaking the laws to come in? Or is that not the actual intent of the amendment but assumptions and precedent in the years since?

The article bemoans statelessness, the idea that someone might be born without citizenship anywhere. Which is curious. Not every country has birthright citizenship. I wonder what happens around most of the world today and if that's actually a problem, or just part of a throw everything at the wall and see what sticks strategy.

I find the actual questions here interesting. I didn't find them addressed in the linked article.

@bibliolater is the post in need of correction... I think Trump didn't raise any debt, right? He just put out a powerless budget proposal? Or am I misinformed?