Farooq Karimi Zadeh @farooqkz@qoto.org

@ec670 @Pat @BobKerns @freemo @tonic

Sorry I don't understand most of what you are saying. Does that "you" refer to me?

@wepiphany @Pat @freemo @BobKerns @tonic

That's wrong. The main difference between the Shia and Sunni is that the Shia believes that the Prophet Muhammad chose someone(Ali ibn Abitalib and his offsprings) to lead the Muslims after him. And Sunnis believe that the Prophet didn't choose anyone and left it up to people to choose. Sunnis have strong emphasis on Shura. e.g. that people together choose someone to lead them and manage their city or country. Sunni's only consider the rule of 4 or 5 after the Prophet right because they were chosen by people. After that, they consider it kingdom because people were not choosing their leaders but because someone(e.g. current King/Caliph) chose the next one who is usually his son. This belief of Sunni Muslims is so close to Modern day's democracy.

However, there are branches of Shia which don't believe that the Prophet chose someone Ali for leading after his death but that Ali was better for leading the Muslims after the Prophet than the one Muslims actually chose.

#sunni #islam #shia #democracy

@Revertron

You may to choose to believe in Quran or not to believe in it. That's your choice and I, as a Muslim, can only invite you and not force you. However, please don't spread misinformation in general.

@Hyolobrika@berserker.town @Pat @freemo @BobKerns @tonic

There are two groups:

1. I don't pray the prayer because I believe I must not pray the prayer.

2. I don't pray the prayer simply because I'm lazy but I do believe that I must pray the prayer.

If I am among the former group, I am not a Muslim anymore because I have problem in my belief and this belief is simply against Islam because from Quran and Hadiths, it is clear that Prayers are mandatory.

If I am among the latter group, I am still a Muslim however guilty because I am not praying the prayer. God may forgive me later on the day of Judgement or may not. But I'm still a Muslim.

Regarding interpretations, if you have studied Quran, there are some stuff in Quran which have exactly one interpretation because the verses from Quran and their Hadith counterparts are clear as crystal.

Like praying the prayer, fasting Ramethan, believing in the Bible as a scripture from God, prophecy of Muhammad, Abraham, Jesus, and others, that Alcohol is forbidden, that we must be honest, that we must not do gay sex, that we must pray the Friday prayer and a lot more stuff.

@ec670 @Pat @BobKerns @freemo @tonic

What is Shapiro-ing?

@freemo okay then my point is that there is only one possible understanding of #quran plus #hadith plus a healthy mind which most people have. As an example, please tell me your understanding of this verse:

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are stern against the deniers, merciful to one another; you see them kneeling, prostrating, seeking grace from Allah and good pleasure; their marks are on their faces from the effect of prostration. Such is their description in the Torah and their description in the Gospel: like vegetation that sprouted, then became strong, then grew thick, then rested on its stem, impressing the farmers. Through them He enrages the deniers. Allah has promised those of them who have attained faith and have done righteous deeds forgiveness and a great reward.

Please tell me your understand of the first sentence.

@otso @freemo my point is that God's command must be self-explaining and must not have any need to explanation or interpretation. If I add an explanation, that is my word and not God's. As an additional note, Hadith is also considered God's commandment. As a conclusion of this, what Mullahs or Imams or whoever say are not like God's word.

#islam #quran #allah #hadith #religion #god

@freemo I beg to differ. Such a thing is not allowed. If it is God's command, only he is permitted to change it. I cannot add a single word or miss one. isn't what you are talking about changing his word by making extensions to it which you call interpretation.

@freemo okay so I ask you: Quran commands Muslims to fight and kill unbelievers. Can you explain this to me? Must I kill my atheist friend?

@freemo no I have read just a small part of Quran. Not enough to have a unified view. So in discussions like this I present my understanding which have been formed by reading his small portion. I think this is something else which slipped through my mind.

@Revertron Sealing the heart is itself a punishment for persisting in disbelief or for disobeying God's command.

@eSagan Boost. Not favourite.

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

Hmm I'm 22 and I study Quran since I've learned #Arabic which is from about 7-8 years ago. And I haven't studied #Quran even a 1/5 times, yet.

I think our scales are different then :/

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

I'm surprised you've studied Quran a dozen times. How old are you if I may ask?

Hello everyone who use #matrix and have a #kaios phone. I've added presence support in #chooj

Please test it with your homeserver and let me know if it works or not. For my HS, it shows offline for all of my contacts(gray badge):

https://github.com/farooqkz/chooj

Donations are also welcome. I've put a BCH address in the README. You can also donate a KaiOS device if the device has one or more of these features:

- KaiOS 3.x
- Less than 512MB of RAM
- Selfie/Front camera for video call
- Volume keys
- Weaker processor than SD205

#dumbphone #kai #kaios #ffos #matrix #matrix_org #chooj #decentralized_chat #chat_app #app #feature_phone

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

I don't like to discuss this further. If anyone is interested they can read Quran and Hadiths which are both available online.

@freemo

With respect, I suggest you be more careful about using words like "monster", "idiot", "extremist", etc. If you call someone a monster for their personal or religious belief, you will probably make them more persistent. If you think something is wrong, come with evidence and act mega nice. And I also recommend first studying a Book(Quran or not) for a relatively reasonable period and then discuss what it talks about.

@Pat @freemo @BobKerns @tonic

IMO, There is no such thing as True Muslim or False Muslim. Someone is either Muslim or is not.

However if you are asking if those two men are still Muslim, I would say it really depends. And I also believe such a situation is highly improbable unless they have never looked into Quran and Hadith. If someone believes there is something forbidden in Islam and they still do it, that doesn't change anything. They are still believers in Islam and that they will pay for their sins in this world, hereafter or both.

But if someone believes that for example, the prayers are not mandatory while Quran obviously states otherwise, I suppose they are not a Muslim anymore. Being a believer has a definition in Quran. You can look at the two last verses of the 2nd Surah.

P.S.: I'm strictly talking about anal sex between two men. Not oral sex and or sex between two women. I don't know about those cases and I don't know if the current evidence can't be generalized.

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

Sorry I think I missed something which might cause misunderstood.

I think the law of Islam, a big portion of it but probably not all of it, is for Muslims. That includes things which are haram, halal, punishments, etc.

For example if I remember correctly, the Prophet Muhammad was giving punishment of Jews according to the Torah they had and not Quran.

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

You might be right about that religious belief is also personal belief. But when Hadiths obviously say there is death penalty, I am trying to deceive myself if I believe otherwise. There is a proverb in Arabic "This is more obvious than the sun". If I am a believer in Muhammad, what other interpretation could I have when he says if they did so, do so.

@freemo @Pat @BobKerns @tonic

According to hadiths, Muslims must implement punishments as much as they can. Which are for the good of society and possibly the person punishment is given to. And this isn't a personal belief, it is a religious belief. e.g. I don't have this idea, my religion has.

Regarding punishments, some are mentioned in Quran, some other in Hadiths and some other in both. For example, sexual intercourse out of marriage is illegal according to Quran and the punishment is 100 lashes in the public which must be done by an authority(government?). You can see the beginning of the 24th Surah.

Hand of thieves must be cut off according to 5:38.

And regarding anal sex between two men, the punishment is death according to the hadiths I've mentioned earlier.

P.S.: Opinion of Muslims is not relevant. For Islam you must look into Quran and Hadiths.