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@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social forcing people to take a drug to participate in society is kinda worse than hitler in a way
@freemo do not cry us a river.
You have the option of not getting vaccinated. All good with that.
Pandemic requires everybody is vaccinated in planes, restaurants, etc. It is common sense.
We never needed "passports" like this before and its just fine.. your argument is so stupid, anyone who wants to be protected can and will just take the vaccine
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
measles, tuburculosis, smallpox.. none of these required registrations or mandatory vaccination and guess what, they are damn near nonexistant in the country today... so tell me again why it is needed? Clearly the evidence in every single disease we vaccinated to date shows it is not.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo they do not mutate like this one. Besides, population used to see the effect of those diseases so they were more willing to be vaccinated.
Today's COVID19 fight is a political stance (it is crazy and stupid, but it is what it is).
So times and virus are not comparable.
Do the math. Build a model if you do not like current models. Variants will be predominant and we need all of them GONE with this version of the vaccine. We do not need a mutation resistant to current version of vaccines...
@icedquinn they are not effective but that virus mutates a lot. It is not the same that smallpox or covid.
In fact the vaccine IS effective against the 4 or 6 flu variants they choose. The problem is that each year are dozens of new variants...
Stop spreading the made up lie that the COVID virus "mutates a lot".. there is nothing remotely unusual about the rate the COVID virus mutates.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
My assertion, you are the one asserting it is mutating and stands a greater risk than past viruses at mutating to circumvent our vaccines if we dont force everyone to take the drug now... YOU are the one who needs to backup that noise, not me.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo The risk with this virus is people no getting the vaccine. That could happen because lack of dosis or because political stands.
It is a completely new scenario that did not exist before with other vaccines.
No, there is no "risk" from not getting the vaccine except the risk an unvaccinated person takes upon themselves (of catching the virus).. those who take the vaccine will mitigate that risk if they want.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
Still we do not know when we will hit herd immunity. I am following Israel (because they are almost all of them vaccinated) and they are still not there. We will see.
There may not even be a herd immunity, which further dilutes the argument to force people to vaccinate.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
Here is the proof the virus is mutating
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global
And it is very likely COVID19 will not be like flu (regarding mutations and new vaccine race), but NOBODY KNOWS.
And nobody knows because it is too new. They are studies on the way. And in the meantime it is better to assume it will and get as much people vaccinated as possible. Just in case.
Have you not listened to what I said.. when did I say it isnt mutating? What I said is that all viruses mutate and that it is no way an indication that the virus is capable of circumventing vaccines... all the viruses we vaccinate against continue to remain in wild populations, and continue to mutate yet none of them have ever spontaneously mutated passed vaccinations.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom
Here you have a catalog of ALL the variants of COVID19. This virus mutates OK? And until know all of them still respond to the COVID19 vaccines. But it could change.
So everybody have to get the vaccine (ideal scenario).
As I already stated that is in **no way** unusual for any virus, varients are very common. What you fail to realize is you are in **no way** showing any level of evidence that the virus is likely to or even capable of mutating in a way that would circumvent the vaccine.
There are many viruses that mutate much like COVID does (which is not unusual) that have persisted in the environment for decades after the vaccine was created, and yet none of them, even after decades, were ever able to mutate to circumvent the vaccine. Like i said your talking out of your ass and making up a fear without any basis in reality.
@swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
Every YEAR flu vaccines are redesigned for new flu mutations! So it is not true that vaccines are never changed.
They could change each year (like in the flu case).
@pthenq1 @freemo @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social Sure but flue vaccines aren't made using completely untested technology.
There were armatures messing around with some of this on themselves a few years ago and all of the professional researchers were coming out and calling them crazy.
NO!!! As I already pointe dout those are recombinations, not mutations in the sense you are thinking. COVID is not capable of recombination only certain viruses are (like the flu).
@swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @pthenq1 @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social IIRC they even have some vector-like notation for describing this.
@pthenq1I don't think I ever disagreed with this? But I will continue to say that forcing anyone to take *any* drug is unacceptable (except in a hospital if a patient is unconscious and hasn't signed a DNR.) Many countries did that in the 20th century (in the US state I live we only stopped recently) with some pretty horrific results.
This case is particularly alarming because of:
1) the pretty extreme censorship around it and the related ideas
2) the extreme lack of testing
3) the way it has been turned into a political/PR partition (so 1-3 mean there's very little science involved and if there was it would be difficult to even attempt verifying.)
4) the companies manufacturing the drugs are absolved of liability (lawsuits etc.)
@freemo
do you have data to support your assertion?
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom