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@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social forcing people to take a drug to participate in society is kinda worse than hitler in a way
We never needed "passports" like this before and its just fine.. your argument is so stupid, anyone who wants to be protected can and will just take the vaccine
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo No completely.
The pandemic must stop so the virus stops mutating.
That mean that 90%+ of population have to get the vaccine.
If a new variant resistance to the vaccine is created by mutations, this will start all over again.
And you like math, you know: when the original variant stops, all the minor variants will have an opportunity to test our defenses (and the vaccine).
@TruthAndFreedom
Thats not how it has worked out with a single disease in the past.. we have vaccinated against countless diseases so far, not once has it been mandatory or require anything like this and they all were eliminated just fine.. your making up shit that has nothing to do with the reality we have seen over the course of 100 years of doing this!
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo Anyway, vaccine is voluntary. And it will be voluntary.
They will give you a receipt/passport that could be required for someone else because pandemic reasons.
That is how it works everywhere in the world.
But if you do not want to apply the vaccines, you have the right to not do it.
@TruthAndFreedom
What are you talking about, it doesnt work like that anywhere in the world... I have lived in europe, and been in most countries in europe.. not once did I have to ever show proof I was vaccinated and even when i took jobs I was not required to show proof i wasvaccinated... again your talking out of your ass
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@swiley virus are like animals in the sense they are birds, mammals, reptils, fish and they are all animals, but they are not the same.,
Same with the viruses: all viruses yes. But they are very different. Flu virus is another very very different of COVID19 virus and so on.
measles, tuburculosis, smallpox.. none of these required registrations or mandatory vaccination and guess what, they are damn near nonexistant in the country today... so tell me again why it is needed? Clearly the evidence in every single disease we vaccinated to date shows it is not.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo they do not mutate like this one. Besides, population used to see the effect of those diseases so they were more willing to be vaccinated.
Today's COVID19 fight is a political stance (it is crazy and stupid, but it is what it is).
So times and virus are not comparable.
Do the math. Build a model if you do not like current models. Variants will be predominant and we need all of them GONE with this version of the vaccine. We do not need a mutation resistant to current version of vaccines...
The flu is not a coronavirus.. though you are right that vaccinations have never been an effective measure against coronaviruses.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
No wrong again .. you are thinking of the common cold not the flu.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
More proof that virology is a joke. They contradict each other all the time.
No they arent contradicting eachother, you just dont understand the language... types, strains, varients, and how they change is important here.
Type A, B, and C flu **are** the three major categories.. however there are many varients of those that change season to season through recombination.
@TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1 @icedquinn
@icedquinn they are not effective but that virus mutates a lot. It is not the same that smallpox or covid.
In fact the vaccine IS effective against the 4 or 6 flu variants they choose. The problem is that each year are dozens of new variants...
Stop spreading the made up lie that the COVID virus "mutates a lot".. there is nothing remotely unusual about the rate the COVID virus mutates.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
do you have data to support your assertion?
My assertion, you are the one asserting it is mutating and stands a greater risk than past viruses at mutating to circumvent our vaccines if we dont force everyone to take the drug now... YOU are the one who needs to backup that noise, not me.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo The risk with this virus is people no getting the vaccine. That could happen because lack of dosis or because political stands.
It is a completely new scenario that did not exist before with other vaccines.
No, there is no "risk" from not getting the vaccine except the risk an unvaccinated person takes upon themselves (of catching the virus).. those who take the vaccine will mitigate that risk if they want.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
Still we do not know when we will hit herd immunity. I am following Israel (because they are almost all of them vaccinated) and they are still not there. We will see.
There may not even be a herd immunity, which further dilutes the argument to force people to vaccinate.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
Here is the proof the virus is mutating
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global
And it is very likely COVID19 will not be like flu (regarding mutations and new vaccine race), but NOBODY KNOWS.
And nobody knows because it is too new. They are studies on the way. And in the meantime it is better to assume it will and get as much people vaccinated as possible. Just in case.
Have you not listened to what I said.. when did I say it isnt mutating? What I said is that all viruses mutate and that it is no way an indication that the virus is capable of circumventing vaccines... all the viruses we vaccinate against continue to remain in wild populations, and continue to mutate yet none of them have ever spontaneously mutated passed vaccinations.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom
Here you have a catalog of ALL the variants of COVID19. This virus mutates OK? And until know all of them still respond to the COVID19 vaccines. But it could change.
So everybody have to get the vaccine (ideal scenario).
As I already stated that is in **no way** unusual for any virus, varients are very common. What you fail to realize is you are in **no way** showing any level of evidence that the virus is likely to or even capable of mutating in a way that would circumvent the vaccine.
There are many viruses that mutate much like COVID does (which is not unusual) that have persisted in the environment for decades after the vaccine was created, and yet none of them, even after decades, were ever able to mutate to circumvent the vaccine. Like i said your talking out of your ass and making up a fear without any basis in reality.
@swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo
Every YEAR flu vaccines are redesigned for new flu mutations! So it is not true that vaccines are never changed.
They could change each year (like in the flu case).
@pthenq1 @freemo @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social Sure but flue vaccines aren't made using completely untested technology.
There were armatures messing around with some of this on themselves a few years ago and all of the professional researchers were coming out and calling them crazy.
NO!!! As I already pointe dout those are recombinations, not mutations in the sense you are thinking. COVID is not capable of recombination only certain viruses are (like the flu).
@swiley @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @pthenq1 @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social IIRC they even have some vector-like notation for describing this.
@pthenq1I don't think I ever disagreed with this? But I will continue to say that forcing anyone to take *any* drug is unacceptable (except in a hospital if a patient is unconscious and hasn't signed a DNR.) Many countries did that in the 20th century (in the US state I live we only stopped recently) with some pretty horrific results.
This case is particularly alarming because of:
1) the pretty extreme censorship around it and the related ideas
2) the extreme lack of testing
3) the way it has been turned into a political/PR partition (so 1-3 mean there's very little science involved and if there was it would be difficult to even attempt verifying.)
4) the companies manufacturing the drugs are absolved of liability (lawsuits etc.)
You are full of shit. Shil.
No they dont "mutate a lot".. The flu works largely through recombination (which isnt mutation in the common sense, and not something COVID is capable of)
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
Sorry my last few replies I thought youw ere talking to me, I see now you were talking to the other guy.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social @pthenq1
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom @freemo @pthenq1 Do you have data supporting that? I mean: having to be yearly vaccinated does not imply that it has no benefit in particularly in risk and sanitary people. Who are the ones that are vaccinated against the flu.
Universal flu vaccines kind of exist but there is some reason they don’t field them.
@TruthAndFreedom @freemo @pthenq1
@icedquinn Because the flu virus mutates a lot.
COVID19 virus does not mutate so much (Compared with flu). But still it mutates a lot.
Let's be all vaccinated and move on...
I was going to get vaccinated once it had the same safety as other vaccines.. but now that the vaccine passport is a thing I will absolutely refuse vaccination and encourage others do the same
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom
That is no sense. If you believe the vaccine is effective, go ahead. Nothing changed.
In any case, you deserve your decision is respected.
And the Covid's vaccine is a need for some activities (as concerts and stuff like that).
Paul and Faucis public fight was about this.
They are trying to pivot a captive audience in to experimental vaccine customers while telling the same people if they are vaccinated they still have to social distance and mask.
Basically, he is saying act as though they don’t work.
That’s kinda not how people usually behave when effective vaccines are in the field
Something is wrong.
No one has made a single science based argument as to why it should be required for **any** activity. If you want to be protected when you go to a concern, get a vaccine.. you dont need to make ME get a vaccine for that... The only way you were able to back up that nonsense is by making up some fantasy that is absolutely not backed by any data or science that COVID is unusually more likely to mutate and thus if everyone doesnt get vaccinated it will still put you at risk.
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@freemo I am sure it will not be required for all the activities. But for some.
And the criteria will narrow when we know more about this virus. This is the 1st year we know it.
Because of that, by definition everything is experimental. Everything is new and everything is on going research.
We do not know if vaccinated people could infect no vaccinated people. That is the core of "keep using masks after you are vaccinated". We know that vaccinated people will not die of this and will not go to the hospital. Could they still carry the virus and infect others? We do not know. Studies are on the way.
SOOOO they required masks and some industries require passports. That is a bias, because it is safer to have a false positive (aka: to assume people will infect, but they will not) than a false negative (aka: to assume people will not infect, but they will).
We will results about that important questions in some weeks.
It is an on going crisis. And nobody really knows enough about the virus. So the best it to have bias in the false positive side.
Norway just declared stoppage on AstraZenica and confirmed blood clot disorders were in fact vaccine induced.
@icedquinn they were not.
But yeah. If the vaccine damage me, I will go to the court.
Still I will get vaccinated.
In case of lack of trust, the best is to be in a wait and see mode. I will get pfizer or moderna vaccine.
You **Cant** go to court... thats part of why people are so mad, they made a law where the companies making the vaccines cant be sued since the safety tests were skipped (the companies didnt want to release the vaccines without the usual safety tests if they were liable).
@icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom@masthead.social
@mystik you can get a check from the vaccine insurance fund. @icedquinn @TruthAndFreedom @freemo
@freemo do not cry us a river.
You have the option of not getting vaccinated. All good with that.
Pandemic requires everybody is vaccinated in planes, restaurants, etc. It is common sense.
@TruthAndFreedom