Hot take: The absolute scientism of the left (lacking all nuance on scientific issues) is just as harmful as the anti-science rhetorc of the right... science is nuanced, remove the nuance and all you have is dogma.

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@freemo "Don't question the science". That's the f&cking point of science, to question everything in pursuit of the truth. The left often weaponizes science, the the Church did so long ago. If people didn't question the science, we would still believe that we are the frickin' center of the universe.

@obi Hey look its great to be open-minded but at the same time dont be so open-minded your brains fall out.

@obi @freemo
What left-wing person are you quoting who said "don't question the science"?

I don't know. 87 million people on twitter. Journalists. I was actually changing the quote as to not having to bring up the person most known for it, who has a cult following, and who IS science, himself.


@obi @freemo
Um, okay. Hard to tell what you're referring to, though. :)

@obi @freemo
(I've been mulling it over, and I honestly can't think of anyone who has a cult following that thinks he "IS science", who has said some modified version of "don't question the science", and who is in some sense on the left. Will you reveal the name just to satisfy my curiosity? I promise not to be mean as a result. 😁)

@obi @freemo
Hm. The only cult I know of around him are the ones that think he should be in prison, or preferably executed. Is there a significant group on the left who thinks that he IS science?

@ceoln That's the only cult you see, because of the cult you are probably in (no offense, really, just from my experience but I could be wrong). One cult idolizes him as a science god, another, like you said, is obsessed with having him jailed. I accept no arguments from the position of authority, just stating that "experts" are correct, because they are experts. As I've said a million times, to me the best ethos is an arguments logos. @freemo

@obi @freemo
I can easily show you people who are obsessed with having him jailed (in fact the video that you linked shows such a person). Can you point me at someone who thinks he's a science god?

I think this bothsidesism on this is generally pretty inaccurate. People that I read on the left generally think he was both better and worse than he could have been (and at least didn't cave entirely to Trump).

'I accept no arguments from the position of authority, just stating that "experts" are correct, because they are experts.'

well, yeah, obviously; me too.

@ceoln I've only read the first part of your statement "I can easily show you people obsessed with having him jailed" and stopped. In my last reply I agreed with that statement, so I am not going to read the rest. I don't argue with cultists (on either side), it's pointless, which is why I originally said I didn't want to name names, and you said "just tell me blah blah blah curiosity blah blah blah", which I took at your word, but I learned my lesson. Let's just say you're correct and I'm wrong, so I can skip the pointless back and forth of obvious statements. It's boring, predictable, and uninteresting.@freemo

@obi @freemo
Why would you stop reading at that point? I was just reiterating something that we both agreed on, to set up a parallel construct for the rest of the sentence.

You seem to be saying that I'm a cultist because I'm asking you for examples of the phenomena that you claim are occurring. If you are hearing that as "blah blah blah", I can only wonder what causes that.

"Let's just say you're correct and I'm wrong"

Okay. :)

@ceoln If it was anything else, I'd be in for discussion. Again, this subject is just too predictable and tiresome. My apologies @freemo

@obi @freemo
I wonder why it's so tiresome, though. Perhaps there aren't really people who worship Fauci as a science god? :) Perhaps the left and right aren't really just the same?

@ceoln Yup, exactly, you must not have heard me say you are right and I am wrong πŸ˜‚ @freemo

@obi @freemo
He says "follow the science", not "don't question the science", there. Those are obviously very different. And in fact he gives examples of how the best scientific understanding changes as we find out more, which is the opposite of "don't question the science".

And when he says that they aren't just attacking him, they're attacking science, he doesn't mean that he IS science, he means (correctly) exactly what he says: it's not just that they are attacking him, they are (just as the propagandists intend) attacking science and objective truth in general.

The left and right aren't just two sides of the same coin here, I'm afraid lol.


I wouldnt go that far (unless we are questioning things just to learn where our gaps are)...

Ther eis a happy middle ground where well established scientific facts are kinda absurd to question wholly (the earth is flat, there is no human cuased global warming, etc)... but then there are plenty of things worth questioning, the lefts treatment of many COVID topics for example, which is clearly a topic too new for there to be much of any settled issues. I mean yea if you say COVID doesnt exist your an idiot, but if you question if we need to wear masks for decades on end and if it will fix the problem, thats probably an ok question to ask.


@freemo What are you talking about, the Earth is flat. Read a book. @unit13

It would seem you're the idiot. Covid-19 never existed. Watch the video. You are just another ignorant sheep in the pasture. Listen to the man carefully. Educate yourself.

@freemo My only problem with the Climate Change subject isn't the question if it's happening, it's the lack of real world solutions, and movement of responsibility from industry to individuals, who probably make up 5% (just a guess) of carbon emissions. @unit13


That is a very valid concern and can think of many exemples in that regard that prove your point.


The whole vaccine industry is based on fraud. I have documents to prove this as well.


Hahaha, I could not have asked for a better response to prove my original post... really, thank you.


> anti-science rhetorc of the right

Strawman created by politicians and the media. But that's what happens when you question the ordained "experts" and accepted scientific institutions.

@threalist Its not the qwuestioning thats the issue, its the level of stupidity and absudity that "questioning" often takes.. much as the left being equally absurd in the opposite way (refusing to recognize the nuance of some topics).

> its the level of stupidity and absudity

Again, in the case of examples where this is true, it is because they are amplified and entire narratives are created and echoed across every spectrum of the media. The same levels of "stupidity and absurdity" exist on the left they dont get exposed and amplified by the media.

@threalist I agree the media amplifies this shit, but its hardly the only source... I have seen countless examples of the right exemplifying how they are represented int he media... hell I saw my own uncle (someone who used to be very science minded) turning into a raving lunatic.

It's the midwit meme

One of the strongest features of the human brain is pattern recognition. We do it without trying and we do it very well. People recognize bs and they aren't necessarily trained or skilled (or have the resources) at building a thesis then working through research and expressing arguments. So your uncle sounds like a lunatic because he is experiencing the cognitive dissonance between patterns and the official narrative, and he probably isnt good at describing or explaining.

@threalist no it isnt his lack of explanation, it is the absolute absurdity of his arguments. Usually complete fabricated and uneducated by generally in line with some aprty line (like thinking global warming doesnt exist or other ludacris shit like Obama's birth certificate stuff)

@freemo dogma is worse than no dogma, true. But not all dogma is equal, some are legitimately worse than others. If an individual doesn't have the time or inclination for serious inquiry, I'd prefer them to be dogmatic about supporting a self-correcting process for uncovering truth than any specific text (2000 years old or newer)

@freemo you're literally the biggest motherfucking clown i have ever encountered on the fediverse. there is no nuance in science.

i can't wait to read the headline that you died of covid.

@freemo lack if wisdom (young person syndrome) style logical fallacy πŸ‘ŒπŸ»

Can you expand on that a bit? I’m taking it to mean that many on the left have a somewhat blind belief that all the products of science are benign. Or perhaps that if somebody supports their argument with data, that you must automatically agree with them.

An example would be wearing masks. The data support that masking greatly reduces the transmission of a lot of diseases, including COVID-19. That said, there are still a number of choices to be made at the level of a society and the individual. Might I be okay with risking some restaurant visits unmasked even during a peak of transmission? How do we balance keeping the economy going with the costs of various measures of fighting a pandemic?

A lot of it comes down to what value you attach to human lives at the policy level, I think. I don’t think it is wise to simply throw up your hands and say that every human life is priceless and any risk is intolerable. I also don’t think that we should take a Darwinian approach to things and let the death tolls mount beyond a certain level to support “freedom.”

I don’t think an absolute answer really covers all situations. That nuance that you mentioned is very important.

@IAmErik It came from a thread/conversation earlier that day.. To summarize I basically said “Yes masks do reduce the spread of the disease, but dont ever expect them to eliminate it, COVID is likely here to stay”… they were very beligerant because I dared to suggest masks might not be perfect…. basically it was a generally science informed stance (masks do have an effect) but it lacked nuance (rejected the idea that masks arent so effective as to be a cure)

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