🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@Jack5150 You sure about that?

Next time you consider giving up just remember, the 6th Freddy Krueger movie was titled "Freddy's dead: The final nightmare", which incidently was the 6th time Freddy was killed... this movie was followed by three more Freddy Kreuger movies.

@bii Yea, though in this case it wouldnt even be poisonous if you did drink it. Would make you puke though.

@bii perhaps, though that is usually labeled differently. I've seen ingredients on denatured products but never seen it labeled as flavor. But you could be right.

@Pat I dont agree. I wont wear a resperator for the rest of my life to save thousands of lives. Living in fear to that extent is not a life worth living for me. Especially considering how extremely uncomfortable I find respirators to be.

@Pat

> Here's a study done on the effect of respirators, without ANY vaccine at all. The conclusion, "...the epidemic could be eliminated in the USA if at least 40% of the population consistently wore respirators in public."

You are missing the point. I never disputed the fact that respirators work **while everyone is wearing them**. I conceded that fact.

What respirators dont do is eliminate the virus completely. If even a single case of the virus remains (and it will no matter how effective respirators are) then as I already said the moment everyone stops wearing respirators the virus goes right back to where it was.

Vaccines are different because you cant just stop being vaccinated. Once herd immunity is reached everyone stays vaccinated so even the rare fewcases of the virus that linger will not spread again for at least a generation.

Long story short respirators even when effective can not and do not solve the problem when there is no effective vaccine availible. As I said all resperators do suppress the problem for as long as they are worn. So its not a solution if you have to keep wearing them for the rest of your life.

@Pat Attached is the data if your curious. As you can see the vaccine significantly reduced viral load int he original COVID as the picture shows. But in the delta variant vaccines have no effect on viral load. In fact, being vaccinated causes a marginal **increase** in viral load against delta.

So yea, the science that has come out in recent weeks now that delta is 98% prevalence shows that the vaccine has absolutely no effect on the spread of the disease.

@Pat

> I just gave you a viable solution. Along with the vaccines, which do mitigate infection, respirators could stop the pandemic. Stop it. Completely.

This is false. Recent studies, the best studies we have, show vaccine has no effect on the viral load of delta. so current data suggests the vaccines have no effect anymore on the spread.

Second resperators will not and never can stop it completely. It can at best reduce the incidence of the virus temporarily while we wear them and comply. Since vaccines do not slow its spread the second people stop wearing masks if there is even one remaining case then it spreads and starts all over again.

So no despite the effectiveness of respirators they can not and will not solve the problem. They only work for as long as they are worn, so they only solve the problem if we decide to wear respirators for the rest of our life, which I wont do.

You might have a chance of solving it if we had a new vaccine that was effective agaisnt delta **and** people wore respirators. But that is likely to never happen. The first vaccine failed for all the reasons I said it would before a vaccine even existed, and so will any new vaccines that use the same approach.

Despite your optimism what you offer is not a solution, and there is no solution that exists or that is in development.

@Pat Its not holding my head in the sand. Its recognizing there are no solutions on the table, zero. The vaccine doesnt work, you can wear masks till you are blue int he face and covid will immediately spike the second we stop wearing masks. There is no solution now nor is there any solution even on the horizon in development for the next year.

I am recognizing reality, COVID is here to say. The choice is live the rest of our lives in fear, in lock down, and wearing masks everywhere we go out of fear, or accepting its just one more among thousands of diseases that might kill us and get on with our lives. I plan to get on with my life.

@Pat

> That strategy will never get us back to normal. The country and the economy could never handle the drag of that many deaths and disabilities.

No vaccine on the market right now has any effect on the viral load of delta variant, and thus does nothing to reduce the spread of the virus. Therefore **nothing** will make covid go away right now. You will **never** get back to normal if you are waiting for covid to go away and certainly not if you think wearing masks is going to solve it. The best you could hope for is covid incidence goes down, to some arbitrary level and the moment masks stop getting worn it goes right back to where it is.

COVID isnt going away, if that is the measure for going back to normal then might as well just give up entierly.

That said since the morbidity of delta is so low even when it is spreading rapidly I think your premise is wrong. Society could handle COVID spreading freely just fine. Yes there will be deaths just like with many diseases, but delta is entierly manageable as we have already seen from the chart I have shown.