🎓 Doc Freemo 🇳🇱 @freemo@qoto.org

@doliu666 I finished updating the code base last night. So now onto some final testing then deploy.

@Algot
Thanks, I agree. Its why I am here mostly.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social Thanks, any time. we may not always agree but respectful discourse is always welcome.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social Anyway thanks for the chat. I need to go to bed. But any replies i will continue reading and responding tomorrow. See ya for now.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social Then you have a very different notion to co-op... to me a co-op is simply a company where the workers are automatically the business...

There is nothing inherent in that to suggest they will be ethical, or try to see without a markup, or to be the cheapest. People, just like the corperations they run, want the most they can get for themselves usually (assuming it isnt illegal or extreme).

When bobby sells susie his used car he doesnt give her half off (usually) just cause he can.

The truth is a co-op will just like any company be just as willing to exploit and make a profit so long as the people being exploited arent its own workers/owners.

Now you can define co-op legally in other ways I suppose. But thats not what i think of when i think of a co-op.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social I cant think of any reason a co-op would be any less motivated to drive a profit. The more of a profit he company makes the more its owners makes, its owners are its employess so the more the employees make. Youd think they would want to maximize profit so they could maximize their paycheck

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social well technically the first co-op in the usual sense was shortly before that date. But yes.

Point is ther ehave been a TON of new companies in those 100+ years. If co-ops were good companies that were efficient and paid back their loans well I cant think of any reason they would establish and grow like any other country and if they were superior dominate the industry.

i mean how many companies around today even existed before 1844... Many of the biggest I can think of were much later.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social Well then there you have it. The reason co-ops dont get established, according to that answer is, they do not put a priority on paying back their loans they use to get started (aka, paying back investors). This they are less likely to get funding.

I mean i cant say i think thtats bad. If you your priority is not to pay back your loans then you probably shouldnt be getting loans.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social

That also makes no sense to me because a business wouldhave no greater motivation to driver competition out of business when its a co-op than they would with a traditional company.

Plus we also go back to the chicken and the egg problem. Co-ops and regular corps were on equal footing in my eyes when it comes to getting established in the first place. So for me the reason of the dominance of traditional corps isnt because of some intentional effort to kill the co-op.. it is simple because co-ops are not, in fact, generally superior to traditional companies.

They are, only, in certain situations such as healthcare IMO.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social I dont buy that explanation. Co-ops have always been legal right along side traditional companies. Even in new markets where no existing companies existed (like when america began moving west)

As for banks not loaning them, I dunno. Ive had to stand up in front of a lot of investors (not usually banks) to get money for companies I was starting. They care about my profits, my effiency, and how well I operate as a company. I cant imagine the investors I've dealt with in the past would care if it was a co-op or not if it was proven to work. They just want their money.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social I dont see socialist as a desirable goal personally. So to me that isnt a plus. Its also not about effiency for me because in a free market you can still choose to run any company as a co-op it simply isnt enforced. So if they are truly more efficient then if you simply start a co-op it would naturally dominate over other companies. So the free market itself can and should in most business decide where co-ops work.

Healthcare is an exception for me. In that regard i would enforce it as co-ops for the previously mentioned reasons.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social I am familiar with the concept. Co-op run companies are in fact what i suggest for the healthcare solution portion. I do not however advocate for that model outside of healthcare. I do not think this should extend to too many other industries though.

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social There are a alot of what ifs and speculation there. Sadly thats also where the conversation is likely to break down since we probably each hold our views and it would be hard to make any solid scientific case for either without many hours of debate and studies and slides :)

But it does seem we take very different approaches and goals.. You seem to want to see a transition into socialism. I want to see a transition away from pure socialism or capitalism and into a system that actually works (As i dont see either of those working in their pure forms).

To give a oversimplification of where that is.. generally capitalism works when there is a free market with both finite and variable demandand supply. A true free market. This works for some things like iron or Pens,.

However this breaks down when the market is no longer "free". an example of this being healthcare which has infinite demand and finit supply (a person will give up everything they own to live for jut one more day if they had to).

Researchers at Carnegie Mellon University, University of Toronto, and UCL have developed a technique for imaging objects outside of a device’s line of sight.

The technique combines special sources of light, sensors, and computer vision processing to deduce or reconstruct highly detailed imagery, without having previously captured the image or “viewed” it directly. As noted in TechCrunch, the team is even able to reconstruct objects around corners with tremendous accuracy using multiple measurements and information about the target object’s geometry.

http://bit.ly/2Xw3CQ3

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social

While I'd personally love for something like that to work I dont think it would. Simply preventing companies from leaving at best slows the problem doesnt stop it. New companies stop forming in the USA and will form elsewhere. Investors wont continue to invest in american companies. And the companies forced to stay will refuse to pull in their overseas money to growth and instead start using their funds to improve the over seas office.

Over time it may take longer but the companies still leave. Which is also why i thought trumps plan wasnt effective.

I also dont think in general increasing taxes on the rich is needed. They are already insanely highly taxed. Thought we could use some fixes on the tax laws so they dont evade as much. For me poverty is a real problem but redistributing wealth to ever greater degrees isnt the best solution. For me I'd solve it through free education and focus on getting the poor educated and marketable. But thats a level of welfare most dont support (free higher education)..

@kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social Well in that case getting rid of welfare and borders works for me. Though I think id rather see good welfare with borders personally.

@1iceloops123
Thats relevant how? Who cares what their race is. Plus im not even sure its true.

@ArdanianRight @kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social @Liberty4Masses @nerthos

@anornymorse
Looks like you responded to a comment that was "deleted, edited, and reposted" .. it usually remains like that as your server holds a cached version you can still see. ITs normal, nothing to do with my server.

@Liberty4Masses @kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social

@1iceloops123
Who are mostly africans? The ones being deported? First off how the hell is that even relevant, second do you have any source to back that up?

@ArdanianRight @kaptainwalcott@mastodon.social @Liberty4Masses @nerthos

@Liberty4Masses Of course man, no one is trying to give you a hard time or call you wrong. Well I'm not. Just giving my impressions on the meme is all. A lot of what you post is pretty good, its all good.